Dave Derington: [00:00:00] We’re getting, you’re not going to say alpha on the shelf. Are you?
Adam Avramescu: [00:00:02] I wish that I won’t, but now you’ve put it in my head. So don’t be surprised if it comes out at some point.
Hey, everyone, Adam, here from the CELab podcast, I am proud to announce that I just released a new book. It’s called customer education. Why smart companies profit by making customers smarter. You can ask. So you find it now on amazon.com in ebook or in print format. you could also do bits dot Lee slash customer education made you an easy little bit lead link.
So I’d really appreciate it. If you pick a copy up and let me know what you think. Thanks everyone.
Dave Derington: [00:00:46] It’s ninth, 2019, and welcome to episode 11. And again, we’re in the double digits of CELab, the customer education lab, where we explore how to build customer education programs, experiment with new approaches and exterminate the myths and bad advice that stopped growth dead in its tracks.
I am Dave Derington
Adam Avramescu: [00:01:07] and I’m Adam Avramescu.
Dave Derington: [00:01:08] And on this wonderful January 9th, it is national static, electricity day,
zap. I wish I had a balloon. I would do that little hair thing, get your hairstyle.
Adam Avramescu: [00:01:18] I have a balloon right outside this room, right? Yeah. So what I’ll say we’ll fix it.
We’ll fix it in post.
Dave Derington: [00:01:22] Awesome. So we’re going to talk about today, Adam.
Adam Avramescu: [00:01:24] this is going to be part two in our series on content. So in the last episode, we actually talked about doing content discovery and. I think do customer education leaders often don’t have a strong background in content development.
So they actually end up producing content that might please their stakeholders. but it doesn’t actually teach what it’s trying to teach.
Dave Derington: [00:01:46] And a lot of time, we put a bunch of content together into a slide deck, We call that training. But does that really lead to knowledge retention or any kind of behavioral change?
Adam Avramescu: [00:01:58] I think that sounds like a hypothesis in the making.
Dave Derington: [00:02:00] I agree. let’s get into it. today we’re going to actually discuss a few failed hypothesis around content development. These are things that we’ve been. Ask to do right. Somebody else said, Hey Adam, can you go get a training module on such and such?
Okay.
Adam Avramescu: [00:02:16] Yes, sir.
Dave Derington: [00:02:18] and we’ve all certainly tried in our careers, they just don’t lead to effective
Adam Avramescu: [00:02:22] learning. All right. So maybe we can start by defining what effective learning actually is, and then share some of the myths and hypothesis that just don’t support the definition. Yeah, that sounds really good.
Dave Derington: [00:02:33] So I think one component of effective learning is that the learner actually carries it out in the training session or wherever it’s delivered. They have to remember. All of this content, what is it I learned in that? Did I sit there for a day, two days a week? Oh my gosh.
Adam Avramescu: [00:02:51] Yeah. Did I actually retain it?
that’s great. And I also think that effective learning has to lead to some sort of behavior change. So it, it motivates you, or it fills a skill gap so that you’re doing something different after the learning experience than what you were doing before.
Dave Derington: [00:03:05] And that’s key. So what are the bad hypothesis that we follow so often?
the ones that lead to really poor, really ineffective training. All right,
Adam Avramescu: [00:03:16] let’s get into it. And, as you were saying that I, I think sometimes even a bad hypothesis is just the absence of a hypothesis we’re on under so many bad, models. Yeah. Bad myths and misconceptions about what training is or what learning is that?
I think our default model sometimes is just so broken. And so we make assumptions about what training should be. And then we ended up going and doing things that are like that without really ever dissecting why they might be a bad idea.
Dave Derington: [00:03:43] Yeah, this is a really good topic to start from. so where do we begin?
Adam Avramescu: [00:03:48] let’s start with one really common one and it’s what I call. Wow. And it’s not just me. A lot of people call it this, the Sage on the stage. And this is the idea that if you put a really intelligence subject matter expert in front of learners and just let them do their thing, or as I describe it, just ask them to open up their heads and take their brain out and jam it into the learner’s head.
Then learning will Kerr.
Dave Derington: [00:04:10] Okay. let’s pair that down into the core. W why does that not work well?
Adam Avramescu: [00:04:17] I think a lot of the time, when you walk into an organization with relatively immature customer education, you can actually see this happening. You have your product experts, leading trainings, and a lot of the time those trainings are one-on-one with customers, but sometimes they might even be webinars or something like that.
And when you actually observe those trainings, they’re packed so densely with content. That the expert is just running through all of the content without much interactivity and without really stopping to check to see if that knowledge is being absorbed or if that knowledge is even useful to the customer, or if they’re going to do anything with it.
So they’re basically just delivering a lecture. Have you seen this
Dave Derington: [00:04:52] Dave? Yeah. And let me elaborate on that a bit, like we, we might ask what’s wrong with that. So I used to be, I used to do, I teach at a university level. first of all, customer education, isn’t like school, in school.
look, I’m going to put back on my professor hat or whatever it is we put on
Adam Avramescu: [00:05:11] and it’s like a graduation cap,
Dave Derington: [00:05:12] And data, all that really cool little tassel thing. Yeah. With tassel it’s black. I could go in to a classroom and I could a lecture about whatever I want, but the end of the day, Those students in the classroom were responsible for studying material, reading a book, taking my assignments and doing what they need to do to get a grade.
And their GPA really has long reaching consequences for
Adam Avramescu: [00:05:35] them. So you’re saying the stakes are a little bit different when you’re actually in a classroom and you have a professor who lectures
Dave Derington: [00:05:42] very much. you’re not really looking at the same thing because, I’ll let you take it forward, it’s apples and oranges there.
You’re looking into grade. What is it that we’re looking for out of customers?
Adam Avramescu: [00:05:51] Yeah, the way I think about the key difference between a lecture in a university and customer education, is it all comes down to motivation. having your GPA on the line is one of the biggest pieces of extrinsic motivation that ever there is.
If you don’t inherently and intrinsically care about learning the subject matter, you’ve still got this thing that is threatening to not give you a degree. And that’s going to be one of the most powerful things that you can earn in your entire lifetime. for our customers, they don’t really have that, They don’t have intrinsic motivation to learn how to use your product. They’re not. Naturally curious about it. So you can’t really design your content as if they are, but they also don’t necessarily have extrinsic motivation. Like they don’t have grades, you’re not paying them, do it a lot of the time.
And unless your company actually has some sort of lever like that, where there’s a provision in the contract that, if all their users don’t get certified, they don’t get to launch or they’re going to lose money here or something like that. There’s no real motivation for them to struggle through bad training.
They’re just not going to do it. They’re not going to take it.
Dave Derington: [00:06:49] Yeah. so you would say then, and I think I’ve read this in various different texts and bodies of work on it that the grade extrinsic motivator is a bit of a risk. So a lot of people don’t necessarily have anything on the line unless maybe their job, or like I know working with partner enablement, it’s a whole different matter because the partner that’s their job.
They have to learn those because they have to support other people. But if you’re right,
Adam Avramescu: [00:07:11] often the terms, there are very explicit where you are going to hold your partners to a certain standard of knowledge and certification.
Dave Derington: [00:07:17] Certainly struggle with this all the time in customer success and onboarding and trying to get people to use the app.
A lot of the time just don’t care unless they have a manager that’s barking at them to get this done and to know it, then, their motivators may be there might, their job might be on the line if it’s really critical. So it’s different universe.
Adam Avramescu: [00:07:35] Yeah. So when you think about it for customers though, and you think about the fact that training for them is.
it’s optional. Even if you say that it’s mandatory, you really have to do a better job of not just lecturing at them, but really moving from that Sage on the stage to a guide on the side,
Dave Derington: [00:07:53] we’re getting, you’re not going to say elf on the shelf. Are you?
Adam Avramescu: [00:07:55] I wish that I won’t, but now you’ve put it in my head.
So don’t be surprised if it comes out at some point. Yeah.
Dave Derington: [00:08:02] So how do you do that? what are the key things that, to have a guide on your side of Adam that. That you would propose
Adam Avramescu: [00:08:10] a lot of it is about changing the role of the facilitator. So instead of assuming that we’re going to have a lecturer who is an expert, who’s going to do 80% of the talking start to think of it as this is someone who’s going to facilitate our customer’s learning and they’re maybe going to do 20% of the talking.
So they should really be. obviously they got to know their stuff when they’re presenting in a classroom or when they’re facilitating training, but it shouldn’t really be about presenting and it shouldn’t be about proving what they know. It should be about getting the customers to reflect on what they know.
And I think one of the reasons that this doesn’t really happen, especially with subject matter experts is this thing called the curse of knowledge. and this is a, there were some great scientific experiments that were conducted to prove that this phenomenon exists. I read about them in a book called made to stick.
There’s a book called, make it stick and a book called, made to stick, and they both have scientific experiments in them. So I get them confused, but this is made to stick by Dan and Chip Heath. and basically what this phenomenon is when you know something, when you’re an expert, it’s almost impossible for you to go back to being in a novice state.
You just can’t remember what it was like to learn this subject for the first time. So you really have to work with your subject matter experts to gut check their assumptions, work with them on not having as much jargon in their sessions and the things that seem basic to them, but really aren’t that basic.
Dave Derington: [00:09:34] That’s really cool. this reminds me this weekend. I was just I’m skiing. I’m taking skiing lessons for the first time. old golf. I feel a little chagrin, I’ve I did it once 10 years ago, but I could see that the really good ski instructors almost are empathetic. That like the skin structure that I had this weekend was gentlemen was 85 years old, totally amazed to me.
And he actually didn’t use jargon-y things. he didn’t pretend that I knew all this stuff and it acted, he acted like he understood what it was like to be a beginner. That’s really amazing.
Adam Avramescu: [00:10:08] Yeah, that’s part of our job in designing content, Is to not just knowledge dump onto our learners, as if, by being experts, they’re going to become experts too.
It’s really about empathizing with them and going back to, what is it like to learn this for the first time? And to do that also means we’ve got to get constant feedback from our customers about the content and about the pace. if you’re not doing any sort of surveys or knowledge checks, or even stopping periodically throughout your training to.
To get their reactions, then you’re gonna have a really hard time figuring out whether you’re doing it. Totally. So I also recommend not just, gauging their satisfaction with the training, engaging how they’re doing, but really deliberately working interactivity into it. So deliberately create opportunities for learners to reflect, to speak up, to ask questions and to practice their skills.
Dave Derington: [00:10:55] That’s really, that’s actually vital. And the way I like to conduct live training, and actually, the way I used to teach in university is that I had a lot of activities. So I would lecture only for I used to do four or our classes once a week. And it was brutal. but I would maybe lecture for 45 minutes in the rest of the time was all of us doing things together or, group for sizes and things like that.
And that made it a lot more sticky and. Dare. I say fun because when I’m just up there talking whenever, when I’m gonna be exhausted, number two, if people are checking out.
Adam Avramescu: [00:11:27] Yeah. And sometimes with the skills that you want to see someone practice, like nobody likes role-players. very few people like role-plays, but sometimes once you get into actually doing that simulated activity or actually doing the thing that you’re supposed to be doing on the job, even if you don’t like role-playing in training, The act of going through that, activity and maybe failing at it and maybe being in that uncomfortable state, but getting feedback on it, it’s really going to help you improve and be more comfortable when you’re taking that skill out of the classroom and back into your job.
Absolutely. Yeah. you got to do that. You got to build in interactivity. I also think that along those lines, one simple thing you can do is, first of all, pause for questions. But when you are pausing for questions, there’s one simple trick. You remember those old ads or they’re not even that old a couple of years ago, they were like the one weird trick that reduced my hair loss.
this is the one. Yeah. Weird trick that makes, pausing for questions better. Dave, what questions do you usually hear asked when someone pauses for questions?
Dave Derington: [00:12:32] Where’s the bathroom.
Adam Avramescu: [00:12:34] Where’s the back. No, I’m sorry. what does the facilitator usually say?
Dave Derington: [00:12:39] okay. Does anybody have any questions?
Adam Avramescu: [00:12:41] Yep. Any questions? Questions. Anyone have any questions and what happens?
Dave Derington: [00:12:45] Nothing. You get quick? Nothing
Adam Avramescu: [00:12:47] great silence. Where’s the bathroom. Yeah, exactly. have you ever tried asking what questions do you have?
Dave Derington: [00:12:55] that’s a different way to put it.
Adam Avramescu: [00:12:57] That’s an open-ended question. And here’s why this is one weird trick.
I guarantee you, if you ask what questions do you have? It reduces that anxiety because now people expect, Oh, of course, I’m going to have questions. What questions do I have? And you’re going to get more questions that way.
Dave Derington: [00:13:13] Woo. that’s definitely something that we should all. Do an experiment, maybe an AB test.
Adam Avramescu: [00:13:21] You can definitely AB test that you can even, yeah. You could try it even within, the same training session, right? For some of your pause for questions, ask any questions and where someone asks, what questions do you have and see what pops up.
Dave Derington: [00:13:33] Certainly maybe even some leading type questions like, Hey, I know I covered this really quickly.
what are the things, what are the questions you might have about X? And, I find this challenging. What do you think about it? Maybe trying to lead them down the road.
Adam Avramescu: [00:13:47] Totally. And then we also talked about the fact that we really have to understand whether this learning is appropriate for our learners, whether it resonates with them and whether it’s going to help them do their job.
What are some of the ways that you’ve measured that day? If
Dave Derington: [00:14:00] okay. there’s a lot of ways. we could go back to the concept of the smile sheet, when we’re doing conventional, old style training classes,
Adam Avramescu: [00:14:07] nothing wrong
Dave Derington: [00:14:08] with that, nothing wrong with that, but quite frankly, I’ve done quite a bit of on demand more than I ever thought I would do.
what I always do in that. Is having a little tiny NPS service. let’s say you finish a module. You’ll immediately get at the end of that module. A quick question or two about, Hey, how would you rate this? Zero to 10? Give me some feedback. What’d you like, what you not like? what did I succeed at?
Is there anything I missed? And yeah, those are really great to get into a system and then just start to pour over them because, going back to a previous pockets, we talked about SAM and ADDIE and stuff. If you’re doing quick loops and you’re getting out there, like here’s one of my favorite things to do.
I will always release small modules and get it out there publicly first and invite people in a beta context. And then I’ll say, Hey, I’m going to give this.
Adam Avramescu: [00:14:52] You’re going to be the first ones on
Dave Derington: [00:14:53] this. But what it’s going to cost you as feedback. I expect everybody to come back to me and be brutally honest.
And that really helps.
Adam Avramescu: [00:15:02] Yeah. And one other thing that I would add to that is when you’re doing that survey, or when you’re doing that smile sheet or whatever it is, obviously you’re going to get a lot of really good information about the content and the delivery that’s going to help you improve it. But one of the things that I always want to know is.
Are the learners going to actually take this and do something with it. So I like to ask that question both in the live trainings that I do and in the surveys afterwards. So in a live training, I might ask something like, now that we’re at the end of our training time together, I would love for everyone to tell me one thing that you will be doing differently.
As a result of this training and that kind of gets people to commit to things a little bit, because if you say it, there’s a psychological principle of consistency and commitment that kicks in, and now just by saying that you’re going to do something, you’re actually going to be more likely to do it.
Dave Derington: [00:15:51] So will I told Adam that, I was going to go home and try this and I did.
Adam Avramescu: [00:15:55] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then on the, on the post-training survey, I might ask a question like, on a scale of one to four, how likely am I to apply what I learned on the job, just to see, if the person is more likely to do that or if they think they’re more likely to do that?
Dave Derington: [00:16:11] Totally. I think you’ve wrapped up Sage on the stage, on the shelf guiding the side pretty well. So Adam, let’s transition to the next topic in that, w what is it? What’s the next big content development myth that you find to be true?
Adam Avramescu: [00:16:28] I’m having a blast on this cast, so let’s, let’s move on from that and talk about, I’m sorry.
let’s talk about another big myth. I think there’s an idea of content first and I’m defining this against the idea of learner first. Okay. And so this is something, again, you can walk into an organization and diagnose whether you’re training and whether your education is content first.
Dave Derington: [00:16:55] What do you mean by content first? Is that okay? I’m just making a volume of material and just getting it out there and I don’t really have any guidance on that.
Adam Avramescu: [00:17:04] Yeah. The failed hypothesis here is, if a training includes all the important content that a customer. Needs and I’m putting needs in air quotes.
Can you see my air quotes are in your mind? and then it is a more valuable training, right? If we include all the important content that a customer needs, then it’s more valuable training. And that’s not true though, is it?
Dave Derington: [00:17:27] I don’t think so for many reasons, if I just put the kitchen sink down, how are you going to digest that?
Adam Avramescu: [00:17:36] Absolutely. So how do you know if you walk into an organization, how do you know if. They’re really taking a content for us, not a learner first approach. What do you usually see there?
Dave Derington: [00:17:46] in a content approach, I might see a team sitting down and saying, what is it? We’ve got, what do we want, what do we want to talk?
But the, we is the key, right? It’s us first. It’s okay, we’re going to do, we’re going to do this. We’re going to do this. We think our customers want this, but then it’s we think we want, and something that I’ve done in the past, I’m actually doing again, is actually canvas. Key customers and a diverse set of them and say, what do you need?
what is it that, and I actually at Gainsight, when I was there, one of the. Coolest things that I had the opportunity to do was I built a S built a survey. And I gave that survey to all our internal people, a lot of our customers, success managers, and then to our customers. And then I compared the two to see, and that really.
Dear at our direction, much more to those gaps in the things that the learners said. We don’t understand this. If we’re struggling with this where we don’t have anything on this and it made it very learner centric.
Adam Avramescu: [00:18:44] Yeah. I love that. Actually, just starting with the learner and know when you’re even designing content.
Sometimes I see people start with a big content outline or an agenda. And when sometimes when you see that word agenda, That is almost a tip-off that we’re just thinking about how are we going to fill our time with content and not what is the learner actually going to need to be able to do?
In this session. And so if you’re walking into an organization and trainings that run through a bunch of different topics in one sitting, and they have these really packed agendas and topics don’t really have much to do with each other. or if you see a bunch of different content, that’s addressed to different audiences on your customer side at the same time.
And a lot of the time they’re just running out of time, right there. Their content is so packed in that they just run out of time. You don’t really feel. In that scenario, like you even have time to add in the interactivities that we talked about in the last myth, right? You’re like, how am I even going to put in interactivity?
I’ve got all this content to run through.
Dave Derington: [00:19:49] Yeah.
Adam Avramescu: [00:19:50] Yeah. So like you said, instead of taking the content first approach, maybe back up and ask yourself, what does the learner need to be able to do after this training? And also is this the right time for them to be learning all of this?
Dave Derington: [00:20:02] Yeah. Let me tackle this a little bit, like I totally get it.
And I totally agree. and I’m going to admit that I’ve done this. I went in, I had the kitchen sink, I had everything and it
Adam Avramescu: [00:20:15] said, we’ve all done this eight
Dave Derington: [00:20:16] hours, I’m going to pack this into your head. And I lecture the entire. Time and people walk out like, Oh, my head hurts my head spinning.
and then I changed. And one of the next points is that, it’s not helpful for somebody to learn everything about your project. I’m sorry. Everything about your product on day one. They’re not going to remember this stuff. And that’s back to your curse of knowledge concept that you talked about earlier.
Adam Avramescu: [00:20:41] I can’t take credit for it, but
Dave Derington: [00:20:43] I’m gonna attribute to you right now. Cause it was you’re the last one. I heard it from,
Adam Avramescu: [00:20:47] plagiarism,
Dave Derington: [00:20:47] plagiarism, no advanced feature X is important, but if your learner isn’t going to set it up during the training or immediately after.
maybe you just want to skip it now. I’ve gone and I’ve had all this stuff. And I talk about all these things and you know what? I get that. If you’re working with a team that’s very new to customer education or very new to training to begin with, I’ve had people in my organization say, Oh, you need to cover this.
You need to cover this. You need to cover this and you need to cover this. And I’m like, no, just stop. What we’re going to do is we’re going to focus on. Again, I’m going to go back to the skiing thing. I love to take other trainings and learn things. This is ski instructor. I talked to the other day. He said, look know, I don’t really have an agenda.
This is about you, Michael. You see the top of that Hill over there. You see where the ski lift goes. I’m going to get you up there in seven weeks. And it’s I don’t know, how are we going to do it? Oh, okay. that’s really great today, Dave, we’re going to learn how to put our skis on and we’re gonna learn how to walk in them and we’re gonna do a little bit of moving around it.
And that’s it. so that’s like lesson one, I got comfortable with the learning environment. And that is the snow, the skis, the instructor, my classmates. So to the point is we can’t teach everything at once because people are gonna, that their brains are gonna
Adam Avramescu: [00:22:00] explode. Yeah.
He’s not teaching you like the double black diamond stuff, just because it’s important. When people start saying, you need to include this because it’s important. you say no. I say why? And I almost get up noxious about it sometimes because I really want to know why is it not why is it important?
Because we can agree it’s important, but why is it important for them to learn this?
Dave Derington: [00:22:19] that’s a good question to ask because
Adam Avramescu: [00:22:21] there’s risks can doing that. And I think the biggest risk that we solve as instructional designers is to reduce cognitive load because the more we include in our content.
Ironically, the less likely people are to remember it at a certain point. We only hold so many things in our working memory before they, this is unscientific, but before they essentially just fall out. So including too much content is actually going to lead to more cognitive overload and we won’t end up learning what we’re supposed to
Dave Derington: [00:22:47] know.
I’ve got a great, I’ve got a great, Reference for you. So rave Coster, he’s written a couple books on game design. And one of the things that I think the book was called theory of fun and really good book, really short and an awesome read. And actually I think, relevant to customer education because you have to have fun.
The thing he’s noted in that text was that. Human beings can remember about five to nine things. They can hold five to nine different things in their head at any given time beyond that they start slipping, they start losing them. So that’s really a kind of a good, psychometric indication of what your learners should be, tasked with.
You. Can’t have cognitive load that goes to 12, 15, 20. If you’re over nine, you’re probably done.
Adam Avramescu: [00:23:31] Yeah, there’s actually a pretty old research paper out there that a lot of this is a work is based on, I think it’s called the magic number seven plus or minus two. It’s got a really cool. Yeah. Perfect.
Yeah. And so when you’re doing that, and you’re actually trying to think what are the, seven plus or minus two things that we want to keep in people’s heads. and that would be really valuable for them to walk out of the training with. We can’t just think about what content is important. We have to think about what behavior changes need to happen at this point, during this training at this time.
And what are the skills that you would actually test the learner on? Now, I see this all the time where people want to include content, but they wouldn’t want to test the learner on it. Or they don’t even know how to test the learner on it because the goal is no, that this is important. how do I test you on if you know that something is important?
I can’t. So sometimes it’s helpful to actually start from the point of what would you test or certify them on. Cause even if you’re not actually going to test or certify them, you can still use that as the standard for what to include or to exclude from your training. Cause if it’s not important to test.
It’s not important to teach. That’s
Dave Derington: [00:24:38] a really good point. Really good point.
Adam Avramescu: [00:24:40] Yeah. and I don’t know about you, Dave, but I run into organizations all the time who have these bloated one-on-one trainings, but they don’t really know what their intermediate or advanced courses should be. and hell, I’ve done this in my own trainings where I’ve done these super thorough one-on-one, you’re going to learn everything about the product on day one.
but then. I’m thinking in my head, I’m going to make an advanced chorus, but I have no idea what that content is. I feel like I have to go out and find it. but really, I think it’s a lurking in the bloated one-on-one training. Because this stuff that’s in there about your more advanced features or more advanced techniques or use cases should actually just be delivered later in the onboarding or maybe even post onboarding when the learner is actually ready to take action on it.
Totally.
Dave Derington: [00:25:21] I think Adam is, challenging and only one thing. I think it, if you’re new, right? If you start, you come into an organization and you’re new to customer education to begin with, so you haven’t done it for years, like you and I and others in our market space have it’s okay. It’s okay to sit down and say, I’m going to gather everything it wants.
And in fact, I’ve done this a couple of times, but after time I realized, I built it all. Now I’m going to hold back and look at what I got. So you might run through that one Oh one, a couple of times with some betas, some like a closed beta with a limited number of people involved. And they will tell you.
Dude I’m full after a certain point. Yeah. And that’s where you could say, I’m going to cut it here. This is going to go to advanced. This is going to go to the intermediate and then you’re not wasting any time because you’ve already built that you just push it over to the side. So that’s one of the techniques.
Yeah.
Adam Avramescu: [00:26:12] Frankly, I still do that. Like I will build a one-on-one curriculum and I will always end up noticing that I’ve put too much in there and I have to make that decision. I did that at Checkr, even when I built our learning center, a couple of months ago. So yeah, certainly even if you’ve been doing this for awhile, you can never make the assumption that you’re going to get the content exactly.
Right on the first try. you’re only going to know when you start putting it in front of customers and getting that feedback.
Dave Derington: [00:26:35] Absolutely. it seems like a good breaking point. Why don’t we go ahead and summarize this week’s lesson and wrap it up with a clear call to action. So we always do encourage you to get out a piece of paper, maybe a whiteboard, whatever you wanna write it down on.
And again, if, if you’re. Just walking into a new customer education function. Here’s some things to investigate. And Adam, why don’t you lead us through this?
Adam Avramescu: [00:27:00] All right. So a few things to investigate, going a call back to last time we’re going to be investigative journalists. number one, how has training done at your organization today?
Who delivers it? How do they deliver it? another thing to look at is that training engaging or interactive. So just watch that training and participate in that training as the learner. How would you feel if you were the customer? How many topics are covered and does the content align with what the learner actually needs to do?
Or is there a bunch of extraneous content in there then think about measurement. Are you measuring the learners reactions to your course? How are you measuring that? is that feedback giving you meaningful feedback that you can actually use to iterate on the content over time? And then finally, in terms of measurement, are you actually measuring the behavioral outcomes from that course, whether you’re asking learners what they think they’re going to do afterwards, or whether you’re actually measuring that behavior change, and that’s all going to help you move from this idea of content first Sage on the stage to something that is truly interactive and meaningful and will.
Be more likely to actually lead to behavior change on the other side.
Dave Derington: [00:28:05] Yeah, this is fabulous, Adam that’s and I think actually it’s pretty straight forward. although again, you’re coming into this for the first time or you’ve been around for a little time, a little bit and you need to advance great stuff.
So do your homework Ang, and let’s close this out by saying, if you want to learn more. And we have a podcast website that’s at customer.education. And in fact, you could just type that in to most modern browsers. It’s going to figure out the HTTP stuff for you there. You’re going to find some of our blogs, all of our.
Links to our podcast where you can subscribe, download an iTunes or anything else that you want. And as we develop ed, lots of other really fabulous material, and please, if you have found value in this podcast, we compel you. Please share difference your peers over beers with your network and help us find the others.
Because we know there’s a lot of us out there and we all need to band together. So on Twitter, I am @davederington
Adam Avramescu: [00:29:04] and I am @avramescu
Dave Derington: [00:29:06] and your audience. Thanks for joining us.
Adam Avramescu: [00:29:09] Go out, educate experiment, and find your people.
Dave Derington: [00:29:15] Thanks everybody.