Adam Avramescu  00:09

Hey Dave, my customer education bookshelf was looking a little lonely. Any recommendations? Hey, here’s a thought. Adam, have you checked out? Daniel quick and Barry Keller’s new customer education playbook? Well, I mean, I’m a bit biased here because I’m actually in it. But I think that’s a great addition because it lays out the steps to run a customer education program in a super clear, practical way. And it’s full of tips from other great leaders who are doing the job every single day. Hey, that’s right. I’m gonna too. But seriously, I’m a SAS book enthusiast. So I’m going to go out and have Barry and Daniel signed my copy today. That’s great. And if you want one, head over to thought industries.com/playbook To get your copy that links in the episode description. So get reading today

Adam Avramescu  00:57

welcome to CElab, the customer education lab where we take customer education myths and misconceptions and put a a litmus stick in them. What’s that called? Dave? We’re testing the acidity or the basicity . We’re Yeah, we’re testing them to see if they are acidic or basic. The power of hydrogen.

Adam Avramescu  01:20

I’m Adam Avramescu.

Dave Derington  01:24

Oh, and I’m Dave Derington. That’s my cue to be prompted for this is the national something. We’re gonna go with month today. And you know what? We like ice cream. It is National Ice Cream month. Yesterday was National Ice Cream day in real time. Yeah, the flavor of ice cream Dave. Oh my gosh, there was this flavor I used to get in St. Louis, Missouri. I think it was like peasley dairy or something. It was blueberry waffle cone. Huh. Blueberry waffle. Ooh, okay, that sounds pretty good. That was good. That actually sounds like I really liked the Ben and Jerry’s who’s not sponsoring this show. But you can Ben and Jerry’s, you can sponsor this show. What is it called Stephen Colbert American dream. And it’s got like the pieces of the waffle going in there.

Dave Derington  02:09

So you know, we’ve got the waffle heritage today. It’s picking up waffling. No, we’re not going to waffle here. We’re going to be authoritative, not gonna waffle.

Adam Avramescu  02:18

About report season, we are still in report season. And today, we are analyzing the next of our three reports. So on the last episode, we talked about the skilled jobs report. Today we are talking about thought industries, and IDC, who worked together to put together a state of the industry report for 2022. Yeah, I like this one, Adam, because it takes a little bit of a different pivot from some of the other reports, and it focuses this time on investment. When I read the title a couple of times, then I read the report and look at the title again. I feel like this is calling attention to executives or senior leadership to say, look, this is why customer education returns value to you returns on your investment. Yeah, and how much? So let’s dive into this one I did the lead in last time. Once you kick us off on this one about like major focal themes in this paper. Yeah. Last episode, we talked a little bit about how it’s really important to know where the reports coming from and what the methodology was. And you can see that in this report, we should probably talk about who IDC is, why did thought Institute’s work with IDC instead of just commissioning their own report and sampling their their own customer base? Well, IDC is a market intelligence firm. So here, we wanted to take a little bit more of a third party aspect, you’ve actually got IDC using their methodology to sample these customer education audiences here, but ultimately have thought industries sponsoring the record. So a little bit of a different relationship here than what we saw, say with skills are sampling their own customer base, or the TSA, who will see in the next episode sampling their membership for the most part. So here, like in terms of the key themes, you really have a high focus in this report on how customer education affects other business success metrics. And so we’re really looking like if you want to answer the question, what is the ROI of customer education? And how does it really make an impact on other things that I care about? We saw this address in the previous report, we saw this when we divided like program optimization metrics from I believe that they also called together called them business impact metrics. Yeah, we’re really focusing hard on the business success and business impact metrics, which I like. Yeah, I like when you read some of the things like the executive summary itself, if we jump to the meat, this quote, s customer and extended enterprise programs expand and mature, the benefits compound in that is like, yeah, hey, when I read that statement ago, that’s appealing because what it says is, hey, you’re doing a good job. And the more time and money’s not like, well, let’s use the money part with intention. When you intentionally

Dave Derington  04:59

Spend an employee’s budget in a customer education program, that benefit actually compounds itself. So we’re looking across the industry across all segments of business, at improvements, what I think you listed in your, your notes 16 to 26%. And, gosh, you know what, like, I did some math here, I’m thinking about this, there’s a really Oh, like, let’s just do that. Let’s do like a high level math. And we’re not good at math sometimes. But let’s say you had on the near end 10, persons will recall that I could not remember what 100 Minus 45 was. And

Dave Derington  05:35

let’s say you had a 10% KPI improvement across the board across all segments of business. And you’re measuring the impact of customer education, which they did across this report and indicated that a quarter of that lift was from customer education. Okay, so walk me through that. What does that mean? 10% improvement. Look, put numbers, let’s say I made a million dollars more, this could allow number probably 10% improvement was like a million dollars in total Arr, or net recurring revenue or whatever you want to put it in terms of customer success. So then we’re measuring a significant portion of that 2.5% comes from customer education, which you can do the math now and say, So how much did I invest? How much did I return? And what why that’s significant is that it’s hard to measure customer education impact directly, it’s usually a second order function. Well, and that’s, that’s exactly why it’s important to have reports like this, that provide some of these benchmarks and show ROI in a more definitive way. Because often when we’re making these arguments, we’re making these arguments based on very idiosyncratic data in our own businesses, right, like we saw this metric go up this percent by implementing this program. And most of the time, we actually can’t even get to that level, as we saw in the previous report, we, a lot of people aren’t even able to measure that yet. So when you are, you’re still generally talking about something in your business. And the other issue being that while here’s where I see the real value in the real trick of customer education, being on the plus side customer education is I describe it as being like the warm blanket that you drape over all of your other business metrics, it improves almost every meaningful part of your customer lifecycle. And this can be quantified in this report quantifies that, however, because customer education cuts across so many different aspects of your customer lifecycle, and is, like you said, a second order metric that supports the other top line metrics for your business, that also means that it’s often both hard to pinpoint exactly what the effective customer education was compared to other initiatives. And it’s also hard to tie customer education, just one key metric in your business. Because if you want to say for instance, hey, customer education produces demand generation, and we’re going to look at the number of leads that are created as a result. Well, that’s just one aspect of what customer education does. So it’s actually more difficult to reduce customer education to just one key business metric. So actually, I really, I like here that we’re kind of looking at the impact, again, across several key metrics. That’s really good. Well, the other thing I thought was pretty good. The immediate call out now is the right time for customer education. And why I’m like, okay, cool. If you’re haven’t listened up before, folks, and you’re listening into this podcast, go read a report, this research shows that we impact significantly, we build champions advocates, we improve CSAT, we help with demand gen, hey, that’s a marketing thing, actually, so as champions, and advocates, and we build brand awareness, which again, is kind of marketing edge, this is really interesting. When I started hearing about, we’re kind of by proxy, working with marketing, even though we’re education, while we’re working with all aspects of the business were all as sort of like the where this is the where, where does customer education live thing from the previous report, here, they’ve essentially gone through the customer lifecycle and said, brand awareness, that’s the earliest phase of the lifecycle, then you get into decision making about whether to purchase the product, you’ve got onboarding after they purchase the product, ongoing adoption. And then when you adopt well enough, you get to proficiency or mastery. And then finally, you get to advocacy or championship. And they’re I’m kind of like taking their terms and rearranging them with this on my own. But once you get to that stage, right, where you’re really a champion for the product, where you’re really advocating for it, then that’s also going to have a high correlation with customer lifetime value, which is essentially what you want to see. So if we can show the impact that customer education has on each stage of that customer lifecycle. Well, now we’re we’re showing the impact. Yeah, it’s cool here, like what their methodology was in this report is really looking at those KPIs. Yeah. And seeing and like we said, we’re getting to the impact that customer education measures in my gosh, we need these reports, because it’s validated and nothing. Exactly. And that’s again, we saw what was it it was like a six between

Adam Avramescu  09:59

16 and 26% improvements on those KPIs on I believe that was on average. And you saw different different increases across different KPIs. But at the same time, you could see the customer education was actually having an impact. And in fact, the more mature the customer education program was, in general, the higher the lift on those same metrics were. So this report is doing two things. One, it’s saying, just put a customer education program in place, and you will already see a benefit, but really invest in that customer education program. And then you’ll see much higher benefit over time. And to that point, they actually point to increases in budget and revenue similar to the other reports that we’re looking at. Yeah. So what was it how many programs saw an increase 42% saw an increase the good stats, and this is like this trend date over a year to year, last year 2021, they saw an average increase from the prior year of 12%. of revenue. Now we’re looking at company Yeah, how the sales like so forth? Right. So let’s let’s just let’s just divide those for a moment. It’s like 42% of programs have an increased budget, not anything to do with revenue, just how much money are they getting to go do their thing? That’s a little bit lower than we saw in the previous report. But it’s still significant. It still shows an overall trends that these programs are by and large, getting budget increases. Yeah, but then your other point is about revenue, the actual revenue that they generate increased by 12%. In 2021, right, so they’re not just getting more money to do things they are collecting more money, was probably getting the more budgets to do things. So it’s a virtuous circle there. In that case, now is a virtuous circle. And and in fact, they’re expecting it to go up. Right. So they said, they said they’re expecting a 90% increase this year, which points to that trend that we’re seeing in all other reports of customer education programs increasingly generating more revenue? Yeah. And that’s, it’s really interesting to see that because it’s like, okay, we’re getting more budget, we’re definitely validating that that budget is having an impact, because, hey, our revenue is going up, for sure. And we’re measuring it all. So this isn’t a wishy washy report, this is actually correlating all this stuff. And then I like this angle where, okay, if I’ve had a customer education program, two years out, three years out five years out, they’re performing at a much higher quality level, they’re getting even better return on investment, the team is gelling. Yeah. But Davey, like you brought up an interesting point in the notes about this, which is you were talking about quality, and we were talking about revenue, and often those, those can even come at the expense of one another. So like, obviously, budget going up is good. And you can invest that budget in producing higher quality content. And similarly, you can have that virtuous cycle where you collect more revenue, so you can have more budgets, so you can generate more revenue. But like, is that where we should be headed? Like, what are your thoughts there? So are you talking about the comment of self sustaining that I made him out? Okay, let me I’m commenting on your your mental magical thinking comment, which I found intriguing. Okay, I want to bring this out, because it comes from some discussions I had and sidebar discussions with people who are practitioners and leaders in customer ad. And we started talking around budgets, and what if I could paraphrase it, and I’m not naming names or pointing out companies, there’s this mental magical thinking around budget? Oh, well, now you should be a revenue generating customer education group doing training. And my thinking here was that it’s really easy to slip into this thinking about, Okay, I’ve been there, you’re delivering training, and your world becomes about delivering training? And then your metrics are focused on how much revenue do we get from delivering training? Did that increase year over year? Services? Yeah, this is like, well, that’s not what we’re here to do my friend, what we’re here to do is scale knowledge and help deliver that value in the moment of need. Let me let me tie it back. Because the reason that we’re talking about training revenue is because revenue matters to the business. At the end of the day, we can all be doing our best job for the customer. But if we’re not actually helping this business, survive and thrive, then does the C suite care about it? Maybe maybe. But ultimately, at some point, you’ve got to make a tie to revenue, because you’re either making the company money or you’re saving the company money. So when you say revenue is not necessarily the most important thing. I agree with you in the sense that as a training team, you cannot make your sole focus on collecting revenue and just treat it as a business and neglect the quality of your content. However, if you’re not going to be collecting revenue, or if you’re not going to be collecting enough revenue, ultimately to cover your own costs within your training team, then what you really have to be doing is making the argument for how you support the revenue of the business do you generate more leads do you generate more demands do ultimately create education that results in more deals being closed? Well, great, you are generating revenue, you’re just not generating it by selling training. Do you support customer lifetime value? Do you

Adam Avramescu  14:59

helps retain more customers and expand them over time because you’re offering them Training. Yeah, it helps to expand the usage of the product, then you are generating revenue, just not by selling your training. So I think it’s really important to think about that. Okay, this is one of those really good points, Adam, that talks about this philosophy of education, right, and what our companies are doing. So I think what I was trying to get to in my notes was, I see a lot and I’ve been in these companies where we talk about revenue, revenue enablement, revenue optimization, we have a chief revenue officer now.

Dave Derington  15:37

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Adam Avramescu  16:05

Okay, cool. Yeah, that’s important. But at the same time, we have to balance that with, and I’m kind of looking ahead and another report that we’re going to look at, where what that report is starting to call out is, well, yeah, we have always thought about revenue. And that’s important, but it’s not revenue for revenue sake, what we’re, we’re looking at that deeper, just like you’re talking about revenue, that’s from impact. And it’s second order. It’s the area under the curve, like the anti Shah was talking about an on a podcast I did recently. It’s the value of the customer. So what I was trying to get to Adam is, you could talk about revenue enablement and revenue operations and all that kind of stuff to the end of days. But I call the what we do customer education because the customers first Yeah, but like when people say revenue enablement and revenue operations, what they’re talking about is like, I mean, they’re saying sales enablement, but they’re, they’re just buying different names. Yep. So that concept of revenue enablement, I think is based on the idea that you had sales enablement, you had sales ops, well, then all of a sudden, you started grouping sales and customer success teams together, because a sales and customer success team, according to this mental model brings in and then protects the company’s revenue. Right. So now together, they are the revenue team. And you have a chief revenue officer who owns both of them, maybe they also own marketing, because marketing ultimately is the precursor to sales, which is the precursor to retention. And all of those revenue teams come together. And they need enablement. So you have revenue enablement, all those teams require a tech stack and systems and processes to maintain. That’s revenue ops. But the model here is based in sales enablement, and sales ops. And to me that is different from thinking about necessarily with a with a customer education program. What do we do? Well, we don’t necessarily enable the Generate and protect revenue, we generate and protect revenue by producing customer education programs that actually yield those outcomes. So like, that’s where I think let’s bring it back to the report now, because the report is actually making this argument that when companies invest in their customer education programs, they see improvements in those KPIs. Why don’t we like focusing a little bit on what some of those KPI improvements actually are? Okay, cool. Let’s scroll ahead here. And where do we want to start? We’re going to start looking at the KPI improvements across the lifecycle. Yeah, let’s start there. Let’s talk about some of the improvements that they found. I wish I could put this on the screen right now. And I guess I technically could, you don’t need to because we’re on an audio podcast.

Adam Avramescu  18:32

Okay, so And because and because we will, we will link to the report in the show notes. Yeah, you can see it yourself. But if you can visualize in your mind, page six of the report was really interesting because it shows six different areas from brand awareness to decision making, to an onboarding your customer, to adopting features that are important and significant and new, becoming like you were talking about before master users, and then ultimately, brand champions. This is, you know, what, like customer education, we’re Education customers who become experts beyond what we can do. Right? Across the board. I looked at that, and you know, each one of them, it’s either 14 or 16% improvement. Everyone across the board like 15%. Wow, look, there was nothing negative. It was extremely consistent in everything. And that’s, I think that’s pretty, pretty generic across all programs right now, even across the mature programs. Yeah, yeah. That’s so so like, right? What if you could have 14% Better onboarding tomorrow, just by starting a customer education program? Yep. Or a 14% improvement in your brand, your brand champions or, or? Yeah, and you know, like some of these like, they go into detail of bar graphs after this where like, they they kind of unclutter these clusters. And so you could see that there’s like some areas where it had been higher impact and some areas where where they had not as much so like, for instance, I think the highest one was customer lifetime value. So okay, now

Adam Avramescu  20:00

19%? What if we could have a near 20% increase in customer lifetime value by implementing a customer education program? And this is what I’ve been yelling about for years, because I say, the customer education programs are essentially your accelerant for your CAC LTV ratio. And what does that LTV ratio? Is your customer acquisition costs over your customer lifetime value? So what do we do we make it cheaper and more effective to bring in your customers. And then we help you keep them for longer. And that’s how your business makes money, especially if you’re a SaaS business. So like 19% improvement, that’s pretty phenomenal. That’s your value prop for customer education right there out of the gate. 20% is that number and it’s only second, we’re improving your product ROI, and which is huge. Like, who doesn’t want to improve their products ROI for customers? Yeah. And then that make better usage of the feature in the product, right? So they’re learning how to use these dots. But CSAT is great, because guess we’re that’s taken us that’s taken us support. If your customers are happier, overall, they’re having less issues. Hopefully, they’re not using support as much again, this report is validated, a lot sort of actually like that. This one’s important because you look at the ones where you actually have the least impact. And here we’re talking about like 1112 13%, you know, it’s a mansion, you’ve got demand generation is the lowest which, okay, I think we have work to do there. But I can see how maybe customer education but isn’t a priority to us at that point. I mean, well, like, you have to look at what these programs are focused on. So I think what I’d be interested to look at is how many of these programs are really focused on demand gen. So if you take like a Salesforce trailhead, or a HubSpot Academy or something like that those programs are demand gen engines. I think, actually, Salesforce Trailhead is one of the if not the highest lead generation tools for that entire company. Yeah. Whereas for some of the other programs, if they’re more focused, say on post sales, education services, or if they’re more focused on product training for current users, and yet, you’re not going to see as much increased demand generation. So I’d like to go back and look to see how they, how they segmented out who these programs are and what they were focused on. But like, then you’ve got, okay, you’ve got time to value after the point of sale 12%. That one’s also low, which is interesting, because when next week, when we look at the Tsia report, I think we actually see a little bit of a shift in focus there as well, because TSA actually spends a lot of time talking about time to value. But then here’s where you’re going like back to the fireworks factory 13%, reduced support call volume. And I think this is interesting, because we actually see this echoed in a few other observations from customer education leaders, where when you implement a training program, you actually don’t necessarily see a huge impact on support, call volume, it might go down, it might go up in some cases, and more, most often, what you actually see is a shift, where you do end up reducing the number of very basic transactional feature oriented questions because customers don’t need to ask that anymore. But you might see that compensated by an increase in more advanced questions, because customers are actually using your product in more sophisticated ways. When we air the episode with Filburn. From intercom, he actually describes running this exact experiment. And I’ve heard this echoed in many other conversations. So with customers education here, number one, I think you want to think about like what’s being represented in the sampling here. So here, I think we’re talking more about trading programs. And we’re talking about the types of activities that actually would decrease customer call volume, like a knowledge base, or a user community, which are part of customer education programs, but not necessarily what’s being represented in this exact report. Right? Well, speaking of more reports, we could talk about all kinds of stuff here. But the fact remains that this is a really telling really solid report, showing that it’s a great time to invest. We’re seeing significant leftover KPIs across all segments of a business. Yeah. But before we jump off, like, do we want to talk a little bit about the maturity thing? Yeah, just briefly, but how they, the maturity of the program, they talked a lot about this about specifically program maturity impacts results, which this was interesting. And, you know, essentially, when I read this and give my take is everybody sees improvement in programs. But this impact is significantly improved for advanced or mature programs. That’s a gimme in my book. It’s like saying, Yeah, you have a customer education team. And that’s been there for five years. And that team has really come together and refined their process. They know what they’re doing. They’re looking at the data. This is validating the numbers, yes. But it’s a gimme. Because you work in an organization that’s developed a customer education maturity model, Eric fairpoint, internalize this. It’s not a gimme to your executive sponsor, because what they might say is, hey, you know what, we’ve created a customer education program, we’re seeing results from that. That’s great. Don’t fix it. If it ain’t broke, just keep going. But what this report is actually telling you is it’s worth continuing to make an investment in maturing your program and developing it and some of the things that they point out

Adam Avramescu  25:00

as signs of what a higher maturity org are is, in fact, exact sponsorship, it’s having your learning content consolidated and making it persona based, not just having it in a million different places and saying, Hey, we’ve got a training here, a training there, that’s customer education. The TSA report that will we’ll talk about next week also points to that theme pretty heavily. It talks about customer learning also being used internally, which is what we saw in the previous report, where they were talking about customer and partner, and internal learning starting to be pulled together into the same program. They talked about high maturity programs making more of a correlation between learning activity and KPIs, which again, was like the point from the skills are recorded about program optimization and business impact. And this report is talking pretty much entirely about business impact. It things like that, right? That makes you a more mature program. I think that’s amazing. Like, you’re really getting to the meat of like, why we’re continuing this investment. And we’re getting on that radar of that executive who says, Wow, this is a safe bet, right? This is if I were to invest money into something and I said, like, like, think about stocks, if I look at something I said, I’m gonna get a 15% Gain on this investment guaranteed. pretty much guarantee, I’m going for that in my portfolio, my 401k or whatever. Exactly. And this is where I think it becomes important, again, to actually continue to invest in maturity, because they did that same analysis where remember, before we were seeing like, 16 to 18% improvement in each of those lifecycle metrics. Well, did you see the same numbers that they had for the high maturity programs, like when you actually make that investment? Well, now all of a sudden, you have increased your brand awareness metrics by 128%, compared to if you just developed a program? Oh, my gosh, I’m seeing these things like one of them the Brand Champion from like, 16 to 35, or whatever it was. Yeah, Brant. Yeah. What is it for brands? Yeah, it was a 38% increase annual improvement of brand champions, which was 139% greater than average? Just like, yeah, that idea.

Adam Avramescu  27:06

126% greater than the average. Yeah. So like, you see really meaningful improvements in these metrics when you actually mature your program. Interestingly, where, where they didn’t see that much improvement for matured programs was around onboarding. Yeah, that was weird or adoption. Why do you think I just thought, I just thought it was odd, because you’re looking at those and go, Oh, wow, that’s 38% for brand gyms, that really stands out, ooh, brand, awareness, 35% that really stands out. And then you see onboarding and feature adoption, what was going through my mind at the time, I mean, it’s 15, or 19%. Still an improvement. But I’m almost I was almost thinking at the time when I was reading the report, hey, it’s still a 15% improvement, it isn’t as much because we’re like refining and tuning existing content and programs that we’ve created. And we’re embellishing and now we’re not going to see as much gain. But we’re going to see continued improvement. Is that how you interpret

Adam Avramescu  28:03

sort of, I take a slightly different spin on it. Like I think for me, I read it as when you first develop a customer education program, and you have a quote unquote, immature program, probably the first things you’ve chosen to work on our product onboarding, and feature adoption. So probably just by creating a customer education program that’s at a less mature state, you’ve already made a meaningful impact on those metrics. And by maturing your program, of course, you continue to see an increase, it’s not like it’s negative percent improvement, but it is probably sort of like a bit of a parabolic curve, right, or it kind of like flattens out once you’ve reached a certain state of maturity. And I’m sure programs are then expanding the scope and are doing a lot more to really drive that high end of customer adoption, where you’re seeing that like advocacy, that championship mastery of more advanced features, as well as going a lot earlier into the customer lifecycle. So focusing more on marketing goals, and demand generation and product awareness. Those are the things you can do when your program reaches a certain state of maturity.

29:07

Adam Avramescu  30:01

Yeah, this is a really nuanced report, isn’t it? It is a really nuanced report. That’s why having a market intelligence firm produce your reports can yield really interesting insights. Thank you, IDC. And thank you thought industries for putting this one together. Maybe we can just finish off with one more thought, because we don’t want to drain the report. We want people to read it for themselves. They asked about plans for the future and some of the obstacles that people had to continuing to grow. Oh, I’m glad you’re I’m glad you brought that up. Because this was to say anything there. I do. When I was reading through this report and thinking of it got to this obstacle, state. It’s again, super interesting to me, because what they’re talking about the top two issues, if you can see, I remember which slide it was where they’re, they’re going through the main here, this is h 12. Yeah. And they commented on this, they highlighted the top two lines, which were 31% of all polled surveyed for TCP obstacles, the top obstacles, were developing relevant learning paths,

Dave Derington  31:02

and improving instructional design in the sidebar, which is totally like content and the delivery of that content delivering content. Yeah, like, okay, yeah, that I think we should spend a few moments talking about, because that’s let’s talk about it exactly. Where we live in the margins. Why are people saying, Oh, well, how do we develop better learning paths? How do we develop? What are your impressions? When when that’s been said? Yeah, well, like I want to tie it to what they they talk about afterwards is they ask people what their biggest improvements are going to be for the future where they’re going to make investments. And it’s exactly answering that question. It’s improving instructional design, developing more specific or advanced content, how you deliver those content to learners, like that’s what’s at the top of the list. So I think you’re starting to see again, more of a value and more of an emphasis on how you actually create meaningful, engaging content that drives these types of results that we’re that we’re trying to go towards. And I know sometimes we we like to rag on on instructional design, because there’s a lot of people who do it wrong, or a lot of people who are attached to outdated ideas of what instructional design is. But I think what you’re seeing here is a recognition among program leaders, that when instructional design is effective, and done professionally and done with the the audience in mind that it actually is the thing that tips the scale towards program’s success. Yeah. And I think to me, Adam, when, when we talk about that, we’re not going to beat this dead horse of how we think about instructional design as applies to our field of b2b SaaS and hypergrowth kind of stuff. It’s different. And it’s not different, because you haven’t learned the right things. And you’re not doing the right things, essentially. But it’s the application of, we’ve got this data intelligence layer that we can look and visualize and get quick feedback on the content we make. We should be tuning it to the needs of the audience, and not necessarily thinking like, everything is articulate rise thing, it’s we’re doing video here or micro learning there. It’s actually going back to what we talked about in our manifesto, and continually driving value in delivering material to customer that we want to consume, and is in a in a place that meets us where we’re at. So it’s those values that are I think, underlying all this change. I agree, I have absolutely nothing to add to that you have stunned me into silence stunned you, blinded you with science,

Dave Derington  33:25

and stunned you into silence to us. All right. Any closing thoughts, Dave, on this report before we pack it away for the day, I think this was a really good summary. And here’s what I put in here in my notes, I think for CROs and even FP and a teams, when we’re thinking about planning financially for the future of a company. That’s a good point to bring to the table when, like you’re looking at ways to invest. If I say hey, look, I’ve got this report here. And I’m thinking about friends of mine who have called and we’ve sit down and lamented about how hard it is to get executive attention and help build a program. This is good for that. Look. continued investment, high impact, significant value. This is how we help out this is a great report to have in your back pocket. Wallet. And now I have friends of mine playing in my my head.

Adam Avramescu  34:18

Use the phrase

Adam Avramescu  34:22

No, I’m not. But what I am going to say is if you are looking for friends of yours will share with you some ways to find the others. If you want to learn more, we have a podcast website at customer dot education. You can find show notes and other material we’ll also have links to all of these reports up there. And if you found value in this podcast, please share it with your friends, your friends of yours, your friends of mine and help us find the others. Were both on LinkedIn. I don’t know why we talked about Twitter. You can find us on LinkedIn. Thanks to Alan Coda for providing our theme music. And we know many of you’re subscribed right now but we’d really appreciate as a five star review

Adam Avramescu  35:00

Are you on Apple podcasts, Spotify podcasts, just places you can rate podcasts. Please do it. If you haven’t, we’d really appreciate it because it helps share our podcast with the rest of the world. All right, everybody. Thanks again for joining. Get out there. Educate, experiment and find your people. Thanks, everybody, for listening