Dave Derington: [00:00:00] I got to improv all the time. All right.

Adam Avramescu: [00:00:13] Welcome to CELab the customer education lab, where we explore how to build customer education programs, experiment with new approaches and take the myths and that advice that stopped growth dead in its tracks, and just grind them into a fine paste that we can. Do 

Dave Derington: [00:00:29] you allow your you’re really violent today, but I’m with you.

Let’s just grind 

Adam Avramescu: [00:00:33] it up. let’s grind it up. So happy national pizza with the works except anchovies day. 

Dave Derington: [00:00:40] Thanks, Warren. The head of 

Adam Avramescu: [00:00:42] anchovies. Yeah. W what do you got against anchovies? I like anchovies. 

Dave Derington: [00:00:48] Yeah. Nice and salty. Can’t have too much. We’ll be talking. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:00:52] No, you don’t want the total salt bomb. I feel like they’ve got a bad rap, what else is a bad rap?

Customer education, myths and misconceptions. And that’s what we’re here to talk about today. 

Dave Derington: [00:01:01] All right, let’s do it, 

Adam Avramescu: [00:01:03] Dave, our last episode, if these air in order was a recap of a conference that we both went to and spoke at called DevLearn and it must be conference season because we’re here to do it again.

What conference are we talking about today? 

Dave Derington: [00:01:15] Oh, gosh, we are today talking about Skilljar connect and Skilljar connect was I think it was a really fabulous short conference. It was, generally a day and a half, held here in my hometown of, Seattle, Washington. And it was wonderful. We’re going to just break into some of the high-level details of this and why we thought it was pretty awesome.

Adam Avramescu: [00:01:42] Yeah. I think one thing that’s nice about going to a conference like this is, if you listen to our DevLearn episode, you heard that, often when you go to an L&D conference, you’re going to have a mix of folks who some are doing internal learning. Some are doing external learning at this conference is really focused on customer education and, like CEDMA, which we’ve talked about in the past as well.

it’s an opportunity to really meet people who do the specific thing that we do. And that’s hard to come by. So I appreciate any opportunity to bring our people together. 

Dave Derington: [00:02:14] And I felt like this was home. I 

Adam Avramescu: [00:02:18] said, it’s really strange, 

Dave Derington: [00:02:20] but yes, but beyond that, of course it’s, these are the kinds of people that every single one of the people I met and talk with.

Was a customer education professional. They may have been a couple of people that were not in our field, but yeah, I would say probably 95% of everybody there is dealing with the same kinds of problems and challenges that we are. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:02:39] Yeah. I agree. And whether it’s at a conference like this or through meetups or through, our customer education, Slack community, that a lot of us are in it.

It’s really good to have that opportunity. To have that family reunion and really talk to other people who speak your language, because, we all go back to our businesses and often we’re the ones who have to go stump for customer education. even at businesses that truly believe in customer education.

So it’s always a really good chance for us to share our approaches and best practices and really speak the same language. Dave, we don’t want to talk about every single session, but I think we want to highlight on a few. so maybe we can start with one on day one, which was a, actually a repeat guest.

She spoke last year, Maria Manning Chapman who leads the education services practice for TSIA, which is the tech services industry association. Yeah. 

Dave Derington: [00:03:33] what I have to say? This is my first opportunity to meet Maria in person and it was great. And she was like, yeah, we wanted to talk with you too.

And this is really awesome. And we’re really happy to be here. And our topic was acquiring and retaining learners. To drive product adoption. So there was a lot to unpack. There was a lot to unpack in this. And, so what do you think about her presentation? What can you tell the, our audience about this?

Adam Avramescu: [00:03:59] I can say one thing that Maria always does really well is she brings the stats and she brings the surveys. So TSIA surveys, its user base, they have benchmark reports and one thing that they do a good job of in driving the conversation is. They’re always talking about the correlation between education and business impact.

So for example, one of the first facts that she shared was what is the average attach rate for training across the industry? Yeah. do you remember what it was, Dave? 

Dave Derington: [00:04:32] I do you want me to say, 

Adam Avramescu: [00:04:34] I want you to say, 

Dave Derington: [00:04:35] okay. the average, let’s see, actually make sure this is right. I had 80%. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:04:42] so that was support.

the detachment for training is much lower. It’s 10 to 12%. 

Dave Derington: [00:04:48] That’s right. No, I had that in my notes, right there attended only 10 to 12% of the, of the time, training is even included in the sale. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:04:57] Yeah. And so people buy these large premium support packages. TSIA obviously measures that as well, but training doesn’t get attached.

a lot of the time and the point that she was making there is that just expecting training to sell itself or expecting account executives, to be our friends and just sell it out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s not going to happen. So I need to think about how we bundle in with other support offerings, but in general, what is our go-to market strategy for training?

How do we actually get it into customers’ hands? 

Dave Derington: [00:05:30] Ooh, I remember a lot about this session. It, she, as I recall from my notes, she talked a lot about the, adoption and expansion, even with the fee versus free strategy. Right? 

Adam Avramescu: [00:05:42] Yeah. Hold on. she talked about fee to free. It doesn’t have to be versus you can do both.

Dave Derington: [00:05:48] Both. And I liked that where you could have a curriculum in place where you’re offering some pieces out for free, certain videos, select modules, webinars, forums, things like that. It doesn’t have to be structured content, but then the fees, the packages that you would sell to your customers of.

Really high impact content could be your video libraries or e-learning content or even ILT and a virtual ILT. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:06:16] Yeah. I’ll go a little off script from her presentation here, the way I think about this is it really helps in a lot of cases to have a catalog of really good free public options.

Because honestly, that’s going to put your education content out into the world. It’s going to show your point of view. It’s going to show that you’re committed to your customers and frankly, it’s going to help you scale. But that doesn’t mean that just because you have a bunch of stuff that is free and high quality.

That everything you do should be free, especially as you start to customize, or as you start to put in manual effort or do one-to-one efforts with your customers, you want to assign value to that. You want to have some way to show, Hey, we put in this much effort and the point that I think she would make here, we need to have her on the show.

But I think the point that she would make here is when you’re going to go back to your finance team and say, Hey, I need to add more trainers or more instructional designers. You want to be able to show that the work that they’re going to be doing is going to be paid for. 

Dave Derington: [00:07:14] Probably that’s super important 

Adam Avramescu: [00:07:16] if she actually brought up some really interesting impact metrics too.

Cause you know, we’re talking about revenue right now and we’re talking about being able to pay for yourself. But you shouldn’t just be measuring the revenue that you bring in that could be shortsighted. You should also be measuring the impact that you have. So what impact metrics did she point to?

How do we tie, the work that we do in training to other parts of the business? 

Dave Derington: [00:07:36] they, she mentioned some really good ones here and again, these are a little wordy, but bear with me. one of them was product subscription, renewal rates, right? This kind of affects churn 

Adam Avramescu: [00:07:47] for train. What is product subscription, renewal rate?

Dave Derington: [00:07:50] so I have, we’re in a SaaS, a subscription economy, right? We’re selling our product over a year or two years at times. And what we want to do is show in this case, a trained customer versus there’s an impact to that renewal based on whether my customers and an account have been trained versus not.

Adam Avramescu: [00:08:11] Yeah. When you went, when an account is trained, there’s at least going to be a correlation that they’re more likely to renew. you’ll probably see that correlation. 

Dave Derington: [00:08:18] Exactly. So that’s a good one. And we’ve talked about that in our presentation as well from that we did at DevLearn. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:08:27] What else did she suggest for impact?

Dave Derington: [00:08:29] Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay. Here’s another one. so those of you who are interested in support call the fluxion, what is. The call volume into support for trained versus untrained customers. That one can get interesting too, because, I learned even in the customer success industry call volume, shouldn’t be zero and it shouldn’t be infinite.

It should be somewhere in the middle, probably lower end of it. And if you’re deflecting some of those calls because you’ve trained people well, that’s really healthy for you because then your support team isn’t correct. Constantly overloaded and having to be, interim trainers.

Adam Avramescu: [00:09:04] Yup. that’s a big one. And frankly, if you can help generate efficiencies in your organization by reducing call volume, that adds up real quick. 

Dave Derington: [00:09:12] Yeah. And then there was a couple of more, product purchase amount for trained versus untrained customers. That was neat because you do, would you think that your training would actually have an upsell.

or I’d buy more content, maybe that’s, I’m buying more training because the training was so valuable and helped everybody out. Or I’m using so many of my seats. I want to get more because the training was really good. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:09:35] And that, that could be correlation, It could be that the customers who are buying more also want training, but frankly, whenever I get asked that question about correlation, I say, so what if it’s actually reverse causation?

And because they bought more, they also wanted to get trained. that’s good. We want more customers who are buying more and if their demands of us are that they want training, then that means training is important to those customers. So we’d still need to continue to invest in training. 

Dave Derington: [00:10:03] Yeah. look, why don’t we take a different spin on this and Adam, I think you were interested in some of our other metrics, like a penetration rate.

Adam Avramescu: [00:10:10] Yeah. we talked about impact metrics, but it’s also important for us to just understand. What the reach is, right? W H how far is our training actually going in our organization? So she pointed to a few different penetration metrics. And again, we’ve talked about some of this on the show, but I think the way that she phrased it was really interesting.

She said, look at penetration in three ways. And by penetration, where we’re really talking about like, how many people are accounts took training. So the first way she looked at this was track your install-based penetration, meaning of all the customers that you have. Who could get trained? How many of them actually got trained?

Dave Derington: [00:10:49] I know what the, what her stat is on this one. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:10:51] for the average install base across all the customers you serve it. 

Dave Derington: [00:10:55] Indeed. And this was surprising. It was a 37%. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:11:01] Yeah. Did you expect it to be higher or lower? 

Dave Derington: [00:11:04] I would have hoped it’d be higher, but I always hope it would be higher 

Adam Avramescu: [00:11:08] in the room.

I remember people were calling out like 5%. 

Dave Derington: [00:11:13] And sometimes that’s true. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:11:15] it also might be that, her survey base in TSIA, these are customers often who are running more mature learning businesses. So they’ve probably figured out how to get their install base penetration a little bit higher up than people who are just starting the program for the first time.

Dave Derington: [00:11:30] They’ve selected for the best customers. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:11:31] that’s my hypothesis. Okay. Install-based penetration. And then we’ve got account penetration. So when we move from install base to account penetration, now we’re talking about within an account, how many people are getting trained? what does that actually look like in terms of, is it one person or is it, the whole organization?

So what was the percentage there, Dave? The average percentage. 

Dave Derington: [00:11:56] that one was surprisingly a little bit lower, that was, sitting at 31%. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:12:02] That was a 31%. Yeah. And then the final one that she talked about was individual penetration. So that’s, for an individual, how much training are they taking, so to speak.

And there, you can get it a little bit more like drop-off right. You want to understand, where people are or aren’t consuming. So the point she made on this is that, these are consumption metrics, these relate to someone’s use of learning. So there’s a few ways that you said you could look at it, even though she didn’t provide a, an industry metric on this.

one way to look at it is volume by title. So by title here, she means a type of training. and another way to look at this is learning path progress. So those were two of the most, I guess highly regarded metrics in terms of what they saw the most in their survey. but there are other ways to look at individual penetration as well.

You could look at frequency like how frequently they visit or how frequently they consume training and then duration, how long they stay. Those actually tended to be lower. So the story that tells is that, people might enter trainings pretty often. people might go through learning paths, when they’re committed to it.

But we’re not seeing as much, in terms of people coming back and revisiting or staying for a long time, 

Dave Derington: [00:13:19] this is really interesting. And if I can be a little bit transparent in my own personal experiences with consumption, and I’ve even had conversations about this quite recently, I think this is something that falls into the, if you build it, they won’t come comment, That. You’re building, you’re focusing your education team on building all this great content. And unless you have some kind of a strategy for driving that consumption, now we have stats, thank you Maria, for delivering this and we’ll have her on the show as well. It’s a call to action for us.

We really need to sit down and build a documented consumption strategy. How are we going to reach folks? How are we going to work with other teams and marketing and other groups within our organization, customer success, our pro serve team to really get those numbers up and convince people, customers included of why the training will help you.

Adam Avramescu: [00:14:14] Yeah, and it’s also, this is the point that I think she made is that the point of having a free to fee strategy. Is that the free part also helps people keep engaged and keeps them consuming. So if you’re looking at this holistically where you’re not just looking at, what’s the uptake of my fee-based training, what’s the revenue that I’m, generating from it.

Then you can start to think a little bit more about what your objective is in terms of each piece of content on that spectrum. 

Dave Derington: [00:14:43] Absolutely. Yeah. Adam, let’s. I think we’ve covered a lot in Maria and there’s a lot of content out there that she has generated. And again, we’ll hope to have her on the show.

Adam Avramescu: [00:14:53] Yeah. I feel like we’ve now a scooped her on all the great information she has to share, but I guarantee that if we have her on the show, she will articulate it much more eloquently than we just did. 

Dave Derington: [00:15:03] Absolutely. let’s spend on a little bit more and talk about a couple of other highlights, Adam, you did a talk and what was your talk on?

Adam Avramescu: [00:15:10] Dave, I would hardly say it’s a highlight. but my team is fun. My talk was on the golden rule for your customer education portfolio. And excellent. Yeah, maybe I’ll maybe I’ll give this talk again. I don’t like to repeat talks that much, but. The point of this talk was actually, it was outlining some of the experiences that I’ve had as a customer education professional, because again, a lot of the folks in the room, might’ve been new to customer education or, even folks who have done it a few times again, we just don’t have the chance to empathize with each other and to say, Hey, you know what?

We’re all in the same boat. I was talking about what’s the golden role. A lot of the time you come in to an organization and you’re going to start customer education and the organization doesn’t know what that means. So you’re a team of one, and you’re chasing after some tactics and everyone asks the same questions like Dave, what are the questions we always hear when people are starting out?

Dave Derington: [00:16:06] What is this customer education thing you keep telling me about? What, 

Adam Avramescu: [00:16:10] what am I supposed to do? what format should my content be in? should I do, should be on video? how long should it be like right. All those questions. What should I measure? What am I expected to measure? So do I build it?

I use people ask the same question, but those are all tactical questions. and so the answer to those will be different. Based on a few different factors. So what I was encouraging people to do in this talk is to start to get curious about their business and their learners. So I had three, I had a three ring circus up there, a triple Venn diagram of Venn diagram.

I guess if you will, in my Venn diagram, I had three pieces. One was get curious about your learners. if you listen to our last episode about. DevLearn, you’ve heard about all these brain-friendly strategies, as far as how people actually learn, what do adult learners actually retain? We have to know that, but we also have to know what works for our learners, what their preferences are, what situation they’re in developers might be very different from a mobile first army of, AEs who are going out there.

And they want to be in training for as little time as possible. We got to know some of those assumptions, the second piece. So the, Oh, go ahead. Oh, 

Dave Derington: [00:17:18] no. so are you saying that this wasn’t, this isn’t cookie cutter it’s you’re really need to dial in to the frequency that these people are on. Like you just said something really interesting to me, like an AA account executive that’s Outreach’s bread and butter, those and sales development reps.

They have. It’s not that they don’t have a long attention span, is that the context of their day to day? they certainly do not. but as opposed to a developer who I was working with at Azu CWA who had a, a lot of time to learn, they could watch a 45 minute course. Really interesting. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:17:52] Yeah.

Although, you listened to developers a lot of the time and they’re like, Just show me the dogs. I’ll go figure it out. Show me the docs. 

Dave Derington: [00:17:56] That’s right. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:17:57] Yeah. obviously there were some stereotypes based on persona. I won’t go too far into the stereotypes, but nothing replaces, actually talking to your customers and finding out what motivates them and what they’re looking for.

and then combining that with some of the things we actually know about adult learning and, brain-friendly strategies. The second piece of the Venn diagram was knowledge of the tool and technology landscape. To make your portfolio resonate. You also have to know what components you are and aren’t going to use.

So I think people will tend to get excited over new flashy technology, right? People say, Oh, there are all these digital adoption platforms out there. There’s a bunch of micro-learning tools coming out. Should I be using X API? the answer to that is you have to know what problem you’re trying to solve before you know which tools you are and aren’t going to yeah.

So any comments on that, Dave? 

Dave Derington: [00:18:42] No, I think. yes, because the learning stack, the tools that you’re using, have they factor in a lot to how you can deliver to your customer. And, we look at your learning management system or maybe you’re on mobile with a microlearning platform.

This is, there’s a big landscape there, and you have to be aware of a lot of different things and be able to create a program that. Has a lot of verbs, In going back to some of the sessions we talked about in DevLearn, you’re tapping into a lot of different areas of the brain and different modalities and different learning styles.

And that’s crucial. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:19:17] Yeah. and a lot of it also comes back to what your product itself is. So if you’re a technology product, chances are, there’s a certain way that it operates in a certain way that your users are going to engage with it. I’ll take Slack as an example here.

it doesn’t make sense to have kind of a lot of traditional in product education in Slack. Like you can’t just slap a widget on there that gives you a bunch of, cues in a notification center because that’s not the way Slack’s product works. That’s not where users would expect to see that information.

you’ve got this, interface in a lot of cases that might be powering a chat bot or powering, an app that someone has built. And there are actually. Specific UI components there that people are supposed to use to build on. So if you’re going to build an in product learning experience, you want to use those components rather than just like slapping in something that’s going to feel completely discordant.

Dave Derington: [00:20:06] Absolutely. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:20:07] And then, okay, 

Dave Derington: [00:20:08] let’s wrap this up. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:20:09] Yeah. Talk about the third piece of the Venn diagram. the third piece is, sorry. Excuse me. The third piece is really knowledge of your business. So everyone’s business operates in different ways. You have different key metrics that you might be tracking.

So get curious about the way that your executives are talking about how you make money or how you serve your customers. Those top level executive lenses, to look at the business, or are going to inform how you structure your program as well. It’ll structure, whether you do more free or more fee it’ll structure, how you teach people about your business and how people are expected to get value about it.

Frankly, that’s what education is about. A lot of the time it’s helping people go on that path to getting value from your product. So if you don’t keep all three of these things in mind, to the point you made earlier, Dave, you’re going to have a cookie cutter program. And so really what it came down to is the golden rule for building your customer education portfolio.

Like when you go from day one, low hanging fruit to having a variety of programs, is that the golden rule is the golden rule. It’s treat customers the way that you yourself. Would like to be treated. And in fact, I got a piece of feedback on there, which is, really let’s, think of it as the platinum rule treat customers the way they want to be treated.

So you have to know, their preferences for engagement. You have to think about being respectful to them and the way that you’re delivering learning. And you have to really think about that kind of Venn diagram get curious about what their preferences are, and what’s really going to help them learn and make your program most effective.

And that’s how you’re going to find a portfolio. That’s not cookie cutter, but as meaningful. 

Dave Derington: [00:21:44] I really dig that there was one other thing that I, that was one of my takeaways from your talk and that’s ultimately what customer education should do for your business. And again, that is helping to scale on managed customers, right?

You want to be able to give people all kinds of content to, and particularly, and. I’ve struggled with this in every position. It’s great to be able to offer instructor led virtual instructor led, but if you have a program that has all kinds of different tools, those unmanaged customers are gonna love you for it because they can get in and learn without you having to hold their hand every step way.

Adam Avramescu: [00:22:17] Absolutely. So that was day one. There were a few other panels and a few other talks and it ended with a really cool education expo where people were demoing their own learning sites. But then let’s talk about day two and specifically there were a few panels there, but I want to talk about yours, Dave.

Dave Derington: [00:22:33] Oh, you want to talk about my panel? 

Adam Avramescu: [00:22:35] I want to talk about your panel. what was your panel? 

Dave Derington: [00:22:37] My panel was on certification. So what we had talked about there was, let me pull up my notes here. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:22:46] Good. so who was on your panel? First of all. 

Dave Derington: [00:22:49] Okay. Okay. So our panel was specifically aligning customer education and certifications, and we were 

Adam Avramescu: [00:22:56] talking about models 

Dave Derington: [00:22:57] for achieving integrated outcomes.

Dino Neisha from Pokhara was there. We had Debbie Smith and Debbie Smith is from QuickBase. And then of course, Me, Thomas plaster, the director of product management of Skilljar was there helping lead that session. and I think we had a really interesting discussion and dialogue that’s, that really helped.

And I really liked this every time we get into conversations, you and I have had the conversation, two of them, in fact, on this podcast about the whole complexity of certification. And I think between Dean and me and Debbie. We ran to all ends of the spectrum where Dean, what I really dig about Dean’s program at Procor is his program is I wouldn’t call it formal hard.

what do we call that high stakes 

Adam Avramescu: [00:23:48] certification six. Yeah, it’s not it’s, it’s a very scalable program, but he mentioned, they have, I think, in the six digits, as far as the completions of their certification program, 

Dave Derington: [00:23:57] Yeah, 100,000 at least, which, that is in fact a certificate of completion, but it is on the spectrum of certification.

It means, we’re not, deeply proctoring it, we’re not going high stakes, but it’s an integral and important, nonetheless. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:24:12] Yeah. And so we won’t belabor the point on certifications. We had two episodes on it, but yeah. One thing that really resonated with me from that panel is there was a spectrum as far as what your certification program is doing.

Is it a certificate of completion where it’s really just you completed this course? Is it a, an ABC and assessment based certificate where you’re taking a test and then getting a certificate for it, but the emphasis is still on learning or is it truly a high stakes professional certification that needs to be legally defensible?

Dave Derington: [00:24:39] And let’s tap on that a little bit. So legal defensibility is extremely important. we’ve talked about that a little bit, but what I really appreciated, I think this was a breath of fresh air in any conversation that we’ve had in this Debbie Smith, again, from QuickBase God into the weeds a little bit on what that actually means.

And I don’t know how far we got into it on our show, but legal defensibility. It means that you’re going to have to jump through some extra hoops and have some established rigor. And these are universal standards. these are industry standards 

Adam Avramescu: [00:25:10] that you law. It’s a law written in 1999 that she called out with, with 13 different requirements.

and these kick in when your certification is used for hiring, firing or promotion. So most notably when it’s a certification where you have, letters after your name, right? If you’re Dave Derington PNP, 

Dave Derington: [00:25:28] And I recall even that if you are listening and you’re in our Slack channel, Debbie did make a note in there of some of those, some of that information to share with us really vital stuff, because, and this is something that I tapped on to close this thought out.

I think it’s extremely important for any of you listening in any of you listening in particular, they’re thinking about building a certification program. Adam, you just did this I’m working towards is to really be very cognizant of the word certification and what it means. I see people slinging that word around every single day and.

I take it upon myself. And I think all of us in our industry have to do this to say, look, when you say certification, it means something very specific, low stakes, high stakes. We are going to jump through certain hoops. There’s the concept of legal defensibility. There’s a lot involved here and it takes a lot of time and effort to build something.

So you can. To wrap this session up, you can go from one end of the spectrum. So what Dean had implemented was, a certificate of completion, ABC. this is a great way to do things and it reduces the stakes, but provides a lot of value. And Debbie would be on the other side of that, where, you have a really high stakes, something’s on the line.

Somebody’s life is on the line. Equipment is on the line. these are really important. Distinctions to make. So if you’re going to go high sticks as a reason, if your CEO or your VP of sales, or somebody wants you to offer a certification class, get into the weeds on what that really means to them and help direct to that conversation so that you don’t waste a lot of time and you actually provide something of value to your customers and to you.

Adam Avramescu: [00:27:10] So I think that’s a great point. And I really, I got a lot out of your panel, just hearing the variety of different programs, zooming back out of that. And. Closing out, whether you go to this conference or another conference, I think the real key here is when you get a group of customer education professionals together, it’s going to be a good time because finally we’re all speaking.

Each other’s language, we’re speaking the same language. One might say. I think, the word connect is in the title and that’s something that all of us as customer education professionals need to do more. So I don’t know about you, but I really appreciated the chance to do that. 

Dave Derington: [00:27:42] I did.

And, I made this comment to a number of people that were there and it felt like a homecoming. we had alumni from all over the place, people that we used to work with, people that work with now, it was a really good time. And I walked away from that thinking, man, the next version of this, I’d like this to go up a little bit more, in an attendance and invite some more people.

and really double down on this whole thing, this whole concept of the community and the connecting with other people. I love the concept of the golden skillet awards and showcasing. And I love the fact that we had a lot of round tables where we could go and learn from each other. I don’t, I know that you saw the same thing that I did is you sit down at a table and some people were had a lot of expertise and some people didn’t, this was really a fresh, refreshing.

Adam Avramescu: [00:28:26] Absolutely. I know you and I were at a round table together. I was at a couple with Isabel Swartz. Who’s been on our show before. just, really having the chance to sit down and connect was super valuable. Now, speaking of connection, if you want to connect with it, the customer education professionals, we have a podcast website@httpscustomer.education where you can find show notes and other material, including our interviews with other members of the customer education community.

On Twitter. I am at  

Dave Derington: [00:28:54] and I am @davederington 

Adam Avramescu: [00:28:56] special. Thanks Alan Koda for our theme music. And if this helped you out, Hey, why don’t you help us out, please subscribe. Please leave us a review on Apple podcasts. I’d love it for it to be a five-star review, but. Even if it’s not just leave us a review. it really helps.

It helps us expose our podcast to the world. So if you think you’re the type of person who doesn’t leave her a view, why don’t you just go and leave a review for all the podcasts you listen to just knock them all out in five minutes. 

Dave Derington: [00:29:23] That’d be great. Yeah, and all the algorithms love it.

And to close out to our audience. Thanks again for joining us. We want you to go out, educate experiment, and find your people just like we did a connect. Thanks everybody. 

Adam Avramescu: [00:29:37] Thanks.

Leave a Reply