Adam Avramescu  00:00

Welcome to CELab, the customer education lab. My name is Adam Avramescu. And we are doing a really fun mini episode today part of a series in fact, where we are talking to people who have either made the transition into customer education, or making the transition into customer education, or perhaps other permutations of not being in customer education, and then later being in customer education. So I am very excited to welcome today’s special guest, Monica Sindwani. Hi, Monica.

Monica Sindwani  00:32

Hey, Adam, how’s it going?

Adam Avramescu  00:34

Good. How are you doing?

Monica Sindwani  00:36

I’m doing well. Thank you for inviting me on this podcast. I’m really excited to talk about my journey and my experience.

Adam Avramescu  00:43

Yeah, really excited to have you on today. And I know that you’ve done some talking in the past about how you’ve made the transition into customer education. But before we get into all the meat of this conversation, why don’t you give a quick introduction to yourself for listeners who may not have met you before?

Monica Sindwani  01:02

Sure. So my name is Monika sidhwani, I am currently part of the customer success team at agent sync. But when I was kind of doing customer education on the side, but soon we’ll be transitioning to it fully. AgentSync, is a startup focused on supporting licensing and carrier professionals in the insurance industry to make sure that they’re compliant and up to date. And so what I do at agent sync is make sure that our customers understand the product and are maximizing the product. Before I was at agent sync, I was working at the University of Colorado Boulder, doing diversity work and recruitment. And then prior to then, I was a contractor with the Gates Millennium Scholars Program, working with students who received a full scholarship, and I actually started in K-12. So I’ve kind of jumped quite a bit, but this is my first time out of the education space. And now in the private sector.

Adam Avramescu  02:01

Oh my gosh. Okay. So if I if I got that, right, you went from K-12, to nonprofit to higher ed to corporate and now kind of more into customer education. Is that right?

Monica Sindwani  02:12

Yeah, exactly. So this role kind of encompasses quite a bit of what I’ve done in the past.

Adam Avramescu  02:19

Yeah, that’s, that’s really cool. And in fact, is, I think, is a great starting point for our discussion. Because when we talk to people who are trying to break into customer education, they’re typically coming from one of those backgrounds, and it’s really interesting to hear that you’ve had them all in a lot of ways.

Monica Sindwani  02:37

Yeah, I know, I’ve done a little bit of everything.

Adam Avramescu  02:41

So Monica, how how did you hear about customer education? Or how did you learn about it?

Monica Sindwani  02:47

Yeah, so my transition to customer education was accidental. I spent almost a decade in education, most recently, higher education. So I’ve always loved being an education. But I was really looking for an industry where I could kind of grow a little more and use kind of a different part of my brain and different skill sets. And so when I was at CU Boulder, I started to consider different career paths that sort of incorporated things that I enjoyed, something I considered was going into marketing, do a lot of what I did was recruit students to do our diversity programs. And I had really enjoyed the creativity and the building relationships that went into there. But I was having a really hard time finding a job. It had been a couple of years, and I was still in the job market. So I started looking, I remember I was looking for something that was like the intersection of what I enjoy and what was marketable. Because at the time, I decided that I didn’t want to be in that position. Again, I really wanted skills that I knew would help me pivot into next career. And that’s where I stumbled upon Salesforce. Our university used Salesforce and so I became the power user of my department and really started to grow my skill set there. And I got my admin certificate, my Salesforce admin certificate, planning on eventually being a Salesforce admin kind of going that route. And so I started interviewing and I even remember, customer like customer education seemed interesting to me. I didn’t know about it at the time yet, but when I was studying for my Salesforce exam, Salesforce, they have these free certification days, where someone kind of gives you the lowdown on what what will be on the test and, and they walk you through it. It’s like a six hour course. And I remember sitting through the course and doing the trailheads and I was like, I really enjoy doing this. Like as a learner. I wonder what it would be like to do this as you know, like a career. So as I was considering my career after education, I didn’t know it was customer education at the time, but I was like something around product training seems really interesting. I always loved teaching Salesforce to my department and you know, sharing the importance. And so when this opportunity at agency came up, one of the reasons that I was hired was because I had had helped out at the university share some learning around how to use our specific Salesforce org. And they needed help with their help center. And so when I got hired, I was hired as customer success and customer support, we were a super small startup at the time, I was the 30th employee. And so everyone was doing a little bit of everything. And so I sort of like, took this on as my project, revamping the Help Center. And then from there, I was kind of like, Oh, I wish there was a way that we could have like a structured Help Center where we could show people where to start and then where to go. And that’s where, you know, I realized that we needed an academy and I started working on our academy courses, and then webinars, and from there, a lot of what I had built was a little bit of self taught. And then I found the customer education community. And that really, kind of helped me realize like this could be an industry like this could be something I could do that really utilize some of the skills I had learned in the past.

Adam Avramescu  06:17

Okay, this is really interesting, Monica and I want to unpack part of your your story here. Because in those different phases that you described, I I’ve met a lot of people who are in one of those phases, but it’s really interesting hearing, you put them all in context. So maybe let’s let’s start from closer to the beginning, when you were, you know, thinking about making this pivot, and you were taking the Salesforce courses. And you thought at that point, maybe you wanted to be a Salesforce admin, and you were doing some internal teaching of software, which, again, is how a lot of people I think, realize that maybe they want to do something like this. Maybe they want to get into corporate l&d. Maybe they want to get into customer education, you don’t really know yet. At the time, did you have a thought? Or a preference? Maybe around? What sort of training that you were going to do? Did you know you wanted to be doing something in front of customers? Or were you maybe looking at more internal corporate opportunities? I’m curious.

Monica Sindwani  07:14

Yeah, um, I always kind of want to do something slightly external facing, like, I would say, the customers I work with, they’re external, but they’re not like, like lead generation, like there are customers. So I consider like, kind of a mix of internal and external. And I think it was because at my at my last role prior to deciding to, you know, really pursue Salesforce fully, I have been considering marketing, as a career I was really interested in because I really liked that marketing piece, I really like the challenge of trying to convince someone to take advantage of what I’m offering and internal lnd has that as well. But I feel like customer education had more opportunity in that space. So as much as I really enjoy building the content, that’s been really hard for me, because I haven’t been in the K to 12 space for a very long time, I feel like the skills I’ve been able to pick up at my prior roles has been that kind of like building out those that marketing those drip campaigns, because it aligns a little bit more with what I’ve done. So that’s why I was definitely more intrigued with the customer education side, I was more intrigued with the product adoption, because I just love like that creativity of building these kinds of campaigns.

Adam Avramescu  08:34

Yeah, that’s, that’s really interesting. So it sounded like you’re, you’re threading a few things together. One was that you know, you were you were enjoying playing around with the tech. You know, as far as Salesforce goes, thinking about being an admin, one was wanting to fuse in a little bit more of a marketing aspect, which, you know, granted, every everyone in any form of education has to market themselves in their programs in in some way. But I think in customer education, it is dialed up to 11 maybe compared to some other some other types of learning roles. And then maybe the third one being then kind of infusing you know, some of your your background in teaching and in education. So like when you were thinking, Oh, I could be a Salesforce admin, but perhaps it would actually play more to my skill set to do something that was like part tech part training. Like that might be your sweet spot. Am I getting that right?

Monica Sindwani  09:31

Yeah, exactly. And like the admin piece, like part of that was because I think there’s a little bit of urgency, I was feeling really restless because I had been searching for a really, I mean, I had been looking for a job for a little while. And I just kept hearing that I was missing some sort of like more technical skill set. And so I had that and so I I had gone through so many interviews for a couple years and so many times I’ve made it to the second round, third round And then if I wouldn’t get the job, I kind of felt a little bit lost because I wanted to leave my industry. But I felt like I didn’t have something tangible to look to. And so I had made this decision that I’m not going to look for jobs for a little while and build this technical skill, just to open some doors and then decide later what I wanted to do. So part of it like part of it, I just felt like, I had to like put aside what I really wanted to do and be a little more realistic, because I was like, I can’t be looking for jobs forever, I felt like I was kind of throwing my resume out there. And so part of the admin piece was I also wanted some dirt, like some career direction coming from so many different industries. I felt like I had such a unique career. But you know, with that, sometimes your your future path is very, like ambiguous, and that that brings its own level of stress. And I also wanted something a little more. Sort of, like linear.

Adam Avramescu  10:58

Yeah, well, and it sounds like ironically that that decision to take a step back and focus a little bit on skill building, maybe maybe take a little bit more of that oblique step, ended up opening a door that you didn’t even expect it to open, which was then seeing Salesforce as customer education program and realizing oh, there’s, there’s something like this that I also can do, even though in the role that you’re you’re in, you know, you were you were kind of coming into this, like Jack of all trades, I’m doing a little bit of support, a little bit of success, a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of Academy.

Monica Sindwani  11:31

Yeah, totally. And even my company, like at the time, they always knew the value and customer education, but they didn’t know what that looked like. And so starting to do more research on it, I was like, there’s so much we could do. And I didn’t even realize because at first I was like, I’m gonna make this Help Center. Great. And then after the Help Center, I was like, let’s work on an academy. And then we we did a webinar, and we had just really great attendance. And from there, I think that’s where we realized that this could really be a really great asset for our company.

Adam Avramescu  12:02

Yeah. So I’m going to ask you to go to go back to two points in your journey and ask the question, what do you wish you had known at this point? The first one I want to ask you about is when you are going through that, you know, that kind of like rescaling process, you decided you wanted to leave higher ed, you already had your K 12, your nonprofit background, your your higher ed background, but you knew you wanted to do something else. I know we have a lot of listeners who are in that position. What do you wish you had known at that point that you know, now having having been on the other side of it?

Monica Sindwani  12:34

Yeah, I mean, I wish I had known about the industry. And I wish I had taken some time to really consider a career in customer education. I am really glad I pursued something technical like Salesforce, I think that, you know, like that no matter what I choose to do, that’s always going to be an awesome skill. But I think it would have been, you know, I wonder what it would have been like, if I had known about customer education and sort of honed in on that. And then I wonder if there would have been like more opportunities for me to be open to because at the time, I think I was really focused on finding edtech. Like, I think that’s really where I was seeing my transition. I had seen myself as an industry expert, and I hadn’t considered like some of this, like, you know, I kept hearing that I didn’t have certain skills. But had I known about customer education, maybe and maybe learn how to remarket my skills, maybe my job search would have gone a little bit differently.

Adam Avramescu  13:38

That makes sense. So when you’re looking at, you know, potentially companies that you can go to, I feel like we see patterns like this, where people come out of either, you know, higher ed or or K 12. And respectively, they go to companies that then serve those industries as their customers. So you know, we talked to like Mike De Gregorio, from top hat the other day, kind of similar, similar story there in terms of all of his customers are professors and, you know, instructional designers in higher ed, or people who go to companies like remind or clever, or I could probably shake or more if I sat down to think about it. Yeah, my handshake. Yeah, exactly. I, in fact, I heard Tiffany Taylor from handshake talk about a similar point in her journey as well. So it’s interesting, like you, you, you feel like you could have opened up your scope of possibilities beyond just edtech companies earlier in your search.

Monica Sindwani  14:36

Yeah. And, and I think it would have given me a little bit of confidence because I was really nervous. I mean, I had, it was funny, I didn’t have like job offers for a really long time. And then I was between two and one of them was a education based nonprofit. And I remember thinking like, I should probably go here because, you know, this is what I know. But then like something was really pulling me towards agency. So I decided to go in that direction, but I think it would have would have also given me some confidence in my skill set. Another thing I probably would have done is spent some time learning the language around corporate, you know, like switching from public to private sector, if there’s like a little bit of difference in language and spend some time translating my resume, just like like little things like we called, you know, we had an orientation for our students. And, you know, just even calling that onboarding makes a big difference it?

Adam Avramescu  15:34

No, you’re right, because like, the more you understand, not just the language, but I would even add on to that some of the mechanics behind that language, like, what is the customer lifecycle? And how is it similar or different to say, a student lifecycle, that helps you that helps you, like be more informed about the way that you’re approaching the potential job opportunity that you want?

Monica Sindwani  15:55

Exactly. And I think it would have helped with a lot of my interviews, because a lot of times, you know, a lot of times I would go through the interview, and I wonder if this is something a lot of our listeners experience, I would go through the interview, and, you know, I’d be sharing some of my experiences are my professional experiences. And a couple of times, people that come back to me and say, like, you know, like, it seems like you’re very, like motive, like, I guess motivated by, like, public good, or providing value. And, and, like, just so you know, like, this is a company like not a nonprofit, and, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t like I was, I mean, obviously, I was very, I am very motivated by that. And I feel like I get, you know, that satisfaction and customer education. But I was, I was just trying to share, like kind of what I had done. But I think the way that I was phrasing it made it sound like like I really wanted to be like with students and around students and, and they’re like, you know, like, you’re not going to be like, working with students all the time. And I think like having like that, understanding that language, and sort of understanding how to talk about my experiences differently, would have helped me kind of convey a little better that I didn’t need to be with the students all the time to get that satisfaction from teaching, it’s just that that’s what I had done. In the past, I did a mentoring program with Salesforce, and they connected me with someone, and she really helped me out with that. And, and from there, I had gotten a lot better success in my interviewing.

Adam Avramescu  17:29

We’re gonna have to give a shout out to our friends in Salesforce trailhead in the Trailblazer program, because it sounds Oh, yeah, they really played a huge instrumental role in in your transition. But the other thing that you’re pointing out that I think is really interesting is, you know, again, not not just being able to speak the language of the business, but to show and to demonstrate that you have an understanding of what from your previous experience will translate and how it will translate. But at the same time, what won’t necessarily translate in the same way. So you kind of need to have a level of awareness as you’re as you’re having these interviews about what will be similar or different, but that you really understand ultimately, what this job is, and what the day to day will look like. And what will motivate you to do that job, not not necessarily the job that you might, like, presume it is?

Monica Sindwani  18:21

Yeah, exactly. And I think that was a big disconnect. And then that’s the other piece that I always advise, when I have friends and colleagues asking me to switch out of the industry is like, like Salesforce was something that I had specifically chosen to do. Because yeah, I felt like it was like the intersection of what I enjoyed. And what I felt like would give me that growth and that job security I was looking for. But I think that everyone kind of has a similar, like a certification that could give them that similar benefit. I have friends who are choosing to pursue their PMP and Scrum master or friends who are doing like data analytics, but I think people perceive education to be very soft scale, even though I disagree. I think there’s like, you know, it’s a hard skill, and people don’t see that. But sometimes having these like, traditionally hard skills, it does give you that edge.

Adam Avramescu  19:21

Yeah, I agree. And in fact, there’s two things that I want to pull out of that, that part of your story. One is that you didn’t you didn’t just make the effort to kind of abstractly learn about tech or learn the language, you actually went through a customer education program. And what I’m suspecting is that gave you a lot of added context about what you would actually be doing if you were on the other side of that table. So because you took these courses in these certifications through Salesforce trailhead, you probably now had more of an idea of what it would take to create a deliverable that would work in Salesforce Trailhead. And I’ll pause there because I want to make another I want to draw at another point. But I’m curious if like you feel like that, that informed you?

Monica Sindwani  20:07

Actually, that’s a really good point. And I really do think it did, I think, well, on one hand, it really, you know, it gave me a really good framework of what we could do. On the other hand, I realized there are certain structures that make Salesforce Trailhead work really well. And I think it gave me and like, I had to pause and be like, we might not be there yet. But I could see us doing that in the future. Like I think one of the reasons Salesforce Trailhead works so well is because of the economy it creates. And so that also gave me like something very aspirational. I think until we get there. i At first, I felt like I was trying to copy Salesforce Trailhead. But now I’m like, we can get there one day, but right now we should do something a little different. But a lot of what I had thought about and a lot of the motivations I had, I think about that when I when I think about what we’re creating.

Adam Avramescu  21:01

Yeah, and when you were interviewing for this role, and now as you’re moving from more of a generalist to a specialist and customer education, you’re able to, you’re able to make those distinctions. It sounds like in a way that someone who maybe hasn’t taken those programs, or hasn’t spent a lot of time researching, you know, specifically the customer education, industry and best practices and who’s doing what well, at least to have that level of opinion. You’re coming from just a different and probably a more informed perspective where you can talk about the vision, you can also talk about what’s realistic, and those are skills that not everyone has, who is transitioning into the field. I

Monica Sindwani  21:39

Totally agree. Like there are a lot of times I think about my Salesforce studying experience when I think about what I’m building out.

Adam Avramescu  21:47

Yeah, so like, I think one piece of advice here is, if you are trying to transition to customer education, specifically, go take a customer education course, take a customer education program, go learn a product, because it’s going to give you marketable skills in that product, hopefully, if you’re if you’re doing something like Salesforce that has a really big economy built around it. But also, if specifically you want to be in customer education, you will now know more about what customer education looks and feels like and will have a more informed response to how it’s different from the education that you’ve done in the past. Because this is my second point. And I do see this a lot, I think people who are coming in from K 12. And from higher ed, even, sometimes even from internal lnd. What they’re really trying to do during an interview cycle is try to explain either that what they did is legitimate and is hard work. And believe you me, I know that being in a classroom is hard work. In fact, I would say it’s probably harder work than anything we do in customer education. But what a hiring manager is looking for isn’t like whether the work you did was hard. It’s how prepared you’re going to be coming in to translate from the thing that you did to the thing that you are going to be doing. Because if you’re in the same candidate pool with hundreds of other teachers or hundreds of other higher education staff, you need that edge to be able to differentiate the way that you look at this role and how you’re performing the role versus everyone else who comes from that same background. And it’s actually has nothing to do with how hard you worked.

Monica Sindwani  23:17

I completely agree. And the nice thing about coming from those industries, like something I really growing in because it’s been so long is you know, you can really build good content and you know how to deliver really good content. But there’s that enablement piece that it’s like how can I prepare this to be like consumed by someone who might not have to consume it or might not have the time to consume it? Where it was really helpful to have that, that Salesforce studying experience? Because I thought about well like, what really motivated me? Why did they do it? What responded to me what didn’t? And then it also kind of now makes me like a little more attuned to like, how do I learn my product? And then I compare it to like, how do I learn a product that we use that I don’t need to know, like my product? Like, like Gong, for example? Like how do I approach learning Gong versus a product I need to be an expert in so it also helps you be a little more attuned to how you engage and like how, how your customers might engage with your product.

Adam Avramescu  24:21

It gives you empathy for the customer. And I love that you just drew that out. Because I think again, if you’re if you’re pivoting, say from internal l&d, let’s use that as an example now, versus higher ed, like let’s say you’re pivoting from internal r&d to external customer education. A lot of the time what someone would say coming from one role to the other is, look, I get it. This is the same field. It’s just a change in audience and actually think I think that’s true on a superficial level. But it’s not necessarily true once you start unpacking all the assumptions about how your job changes, when that learning is no longer mandatory, when it’s not at your company when you might not have the right systems to be able to track who is or isn’t using your materials. When you have no control over being able to talk to their hiring managers, any of that, well, that changes the way that you’re going to be doing customer education, versus how you might have been doing internal education. And I think is the same as true maybe times 1.5 to 2x. If you’re coming from higher ed.

Monica Sindwani  25:15

Oh, totally. And then like, 10x, if you’re coming from?

Adam Avramescu  25:20

Yeah, for sure. So it’s like don’t don’t, yes, absolutely, like, make your skills applicable and like, help the hiring manager understand how what you did will translate to what you’re going to do. But I think it’s not enough to say, I’ve worked hard, and I worked hard in this thing that was learning related, I think you have to have some level of self awareness about how those skills are going to translate, but also what gaps you’re going to have to fill and how you’re going to work to fill them because you are making a career transition. It’s not the same job.

Monica Sindwani  25:48

Totally, it’s actually kind of funny, I remember the first time, I had built out this drip campaign for our customers. And I remember, like, I opened the open, and click, I was looking at the open and click rates. And I was really disappointed because they’re really low to me. And my boss was like, this is actually really good. And I was like, Yeah, but at my old job, like, we had like a, like, I remember, we had like a ridiculously high opening click rate because I worked at a diversity program. And the students had to like complete a set of requirements in order to get their scholarship. And so I was like telling my boss about this. And he was like, because like you realize you literally paid them to open your emails. And I was like, oh, yeah, that’s true.

Adam Avramescu  26:31

Yeah, or like, like you’re doing like, like sales enablement, or something, and you’re running to 100% Completion, because that’s the mandates from from the business, and you’re like, oh, yeah, I’m not gonna get 100% completion on my Academy course that I’m delivering for free to the public or something.

Monica Sindwani  26:45

Yeah, who probably have a million things going on who, like, may or may have not wanted to, like take this off their plate? So like, you really have to consider like, okay, like, what is their mental state right now? Like, what? What do they need to know at this moment? Like, I can’t give them too much. I can’t give them too little.

Adam Avramescu  27:07

Yeah, which which is still analysis, right? If you if you want to use Addie as your framework, that is still analysis of your audience, but is going to inform the way that you approach the the job of the deliverables, I think in kind of a fundamentally different way than you would if you were doing it for a different audience where it was either mandatory or, you know, I love the example that you brought up earlier, where you’re literally paying them to complete the course. It’s just a very different set of assumptions. So I love that you keep going back to customer empathy here.

Monica Sindwani  27:38

Oh, thank you. Yeah. And it’s, I mean, it’s funny, like, some days, I feel really good. I mean, it’s still a career such some days, I’m like, oh, man, this is so hard. But like, maybe, maybe I should have gone back. But all in all, it’s been a really fun switch. And I really enjoyed it.

Adam Avramescu  27:57

So let me let me ask you one more question then about what you wish you had known because you’re making now a second transition, or a third or a fourth, depending on how many transitions you want to count from your earlier days. But you’re now making one from kind of more of a support oriented generalist into a customer, education focused specialist. We have many accidental instructional designers who come from the support world, or maybe their customer success managers who are really good at doing what they’re doing are really good at teaching customers. Now they want to do it full time. What advice or recommendations do you have to someone who is making that particular switch?

Monica Sindwani  28:35

Oh, that’s a good question. I’m still figuring it out. So I’m open to advice. But I guess something that’s been really helpful to me, is I spend a lot of time looking at what other companies are doing. But then also seeing what we do well, and I’m realizing, you know, I’m very research oriented, I spent a lot of time looking at our customer insights. But I’m also learning that sometimes I have to trust my gut, too. And so that’s something I’m really working on is if if I’m if I think something is good for our customers doing it, even if I don’t feel like I have, like 100% of the research or 100% of the insights. And if it’s some and then I guess another thing I’m thinking is, you know, like, there’s that ideal state and then what our customers need now and I think not being scared to do what our customers need now. And finding people finding resources, the customer integration, customer education group has been amazing to see if someone’s doing something similar and not being scared to reach out. So like, for example, I’m looking into doing webinars, again, lots of webinars, and while I didn’t see that as my ideal state at first, I’ve seen that that’s what our customers need. And I found someone in the customer education group, kind of who does amazing webinars for their customers. And I just reached out to her. So I think like, not being scared to do what your customers need, even if it’s not what you see in your ideal state, and then not being scared to reach out for it, or like stepping back, I guess would be a better way to say it. I mean, it’s funny when you do these some days, you feel like, Oh, I’m killing it. And Sunday’s, you’re like, oh, I need to step back. I’m so behind. And now that you’ve had, I was like, now I feel a little better, as I’m telling other people to do this, so that I don’t feel bad to take a step back.

Adam Avramescu  30:40

No, and I think like, to your point, sometimes you do have to do what’s good for your customers right now, especially in the face of not having as much data as you’d like, or as much evidence as you’d like, or as many other comparable models, because it’s like, those three things are ideally going to inform how you structure your program, but you’re not always going to have a lot of it. So those three categories would be number one, actual data that you have about your customers and about your business. But there’s a difference between being data driven, and making all your decisions based on data, and data informed meaning using the data you have available, but then supplementing that with other sources, because you’re not always gonna have all the data you want. Number two, is this like evidence based versus evidence informed? So what does the research around instructional design and adult learning theory tell us? Do you base all your decisions on that? Well, you can’t and customer education because not everything has been tested. Versus evidence informed, use what’s available, use it as best as you can, but make the decisions that are best for your customers. And then the third one being what are other programs doing? What are the best practices in the industry? Well, to your point, Monica, like, you may not have the same ecosystem or job market, or customer base, or reach or funding as another, another company out there. So you might not be able to lift and shift what they’re doing in their program and have it work for your customers. So I really love that as a piece of takeaway advice. Like sometimes you really do have to do what’s right for your customers right now. And you shouldn’t necessarily feel like that makes you deficient.

Monica Sindwani  32:14

Thanks. Now I feel that maybe we did this today, because I was, I was like, Oh man, I have to step back. But now Now I feel better about it.

Adam Avramescu  32:24

I think I think you’ve just hit on one of the one of the existentially hard things about being in customer education. But to your point, there’s more people coming in every day. And I love that there are more opportunities for people to connect. So hopefully, we’ll do more of these episodes with more people who are making the pivot. But before we tap out for this episode, Monica, is there anything else that you’d like to say or share with the audience?

Monica Sindwani  32:49

I think that I have shared all the wisdom I have. But if you have any questions, you can find me in the slack group. But they added thank you so much for reaching out. This is really fun. And I’m really flattered and excited that you asked me.

Adam Avramescu  33:05

Yeah, well, I’m so excited that you took the time to talk today. And let’s let’s share a few resources. The slack group that you’re talking about is customer education.org, where you can sign up and join a community of customer education practitioners and friends of the industry. And then another one that you were sharing with me, before we got on this call that I had actually come across recently as well is the podcast pivoting out of edu. And that’s hosted by Dr. Tom stuttered and Jamie Hoffman. So might be a good resource if you are in edu and looking to make the the pivot out.

Monica Sindwani  33:41

Yeah, definitely. I have not listened to it yet. But I’ve heard for many colleagues, it’s very helpful.

Adam Avramescu  33:50

Alright, folks, well, Monica, thank you again for joining. This was a really insightful conversation. Really helpful to hear your perspective. And to our listeners. You know what to do, please find us on your podcast app of choice. Please subscribe. Please leave us a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to get the word out about our little project here. And in the meantime, keep it real. Keep it classy. keep educating. That’s our new catchphrase. Thanks, everyone.